Spoiler Cry, Even Better if you Beg

Also, I must say that is why Solche is an amazing writer. She wrote stories that are deep enough to be analysed. Of course then, we'd have different views because we all are different.

I would like to point out a metaphor used by Solche that I think is brilliant. The Arvis Greenhouse, the real bird cage of the nobles. She amazingly wrote how the Arvis Greenhouse is beautiful inside, but yet the birds inside are all tamed by cutting its wings.

There was even an event where Layla was called to the greenhouse and she felt in a way uncomfortable, she wanted to go out of the greenhouse as quick as she can. She felt that she doesn't belong there. And then as we all know, the greenhouse would be burnt by Billy. I interpreted this as a foreshadow how Matthias would go out as a free bird and no longer a caged 'tamed' bird. Very smart of Solche!

Do you guys have any favourite metaphor in CEBYB?

 

And this is why I say, that your argument was just plain "hypocrisy"

If it's Matthias then it's okay, it's not rape and there is nothing wrong with it but if it's others then it's wrong.

It is raped if the person was obviously against it. They can say "yes" because they have no other choice but if their mind was elsewhere hating it then that is rape.

Again, it is an insult to Leyla and even the author- you guys just completely ignored what she felt during the entire time.

If you read "The Elegant Sea of Savagery " ML there did the same thing as Matthias - used FL's situation to have her.
In the end, they still ended up together.

There was no justifying the ML's actions.
There was no cleaning up from fans.

Because no matter what, it doesn't change the fact that what he did was wrong.
Again, stories like these are dark - it's not for everyone. It's no different with Noir romance! - you take them as is.

But you guys are here making excuses and justifying what Matthias did, even to the point of degrading the FL's Character as if ML's like Matthias doesn't exist - Trying to make it look like it's some sort of a fairytale, romantic story which is not!!!

 

Guys let's try understanding the novel. I found this on korean forum:

Anyone know what this mean and what it relate to in the story?

oh and by the way, I read the korean version too. Yonder translated Matthias's description wrong because localization. Actually he was always been said "Beautiful" but they localized it "handsome".

Matthias is always described beautiful.

and there are some small error localization that I was sensitive at: Layla never said "love" or "I LOVE you" to Matthias until chapter 143+
It was "like" or "I LIKE you"

the difference and meaning in these two words are huge to me.

that's why when she said Love for first time, it felt very emotional

 

Hey ! I don't know if you will read this or not but If you see this can you answer these questions :-
• Is the ml Playboy or something ?!
• Did he loved his fiance ?! Or had any romantic feelings for her ?! Did they ever get intimate before ?!
• The people here say that the ml didn't r@pe her so can I guess she was willing to do it with him or she loved him ?!
• I want some points of why the people hate the ml..just what did he do aside from blocking her University and teacher path ?!

 

Hi @kaori_miori nope! What do you think is the meaning? I know Solche likes to use this metaphor for different FL. Deer for Erna and Siren for Odette.

thats true! When I listened to the recording, she said ”I like you” and not I love you. interesting.

 

Saying it insult to author is wrong bc didn't she write a romance for them together? I think the author chose to use their love to justify them ending up together. It's rape and dubcon but if ppl want use their love for each other to excuse their action then they got to own it. I can't. They just sound like they fell for Solche's brainwashing writing that make the dubcon sound so romantic.

He's not a playboy. Do ppl only think playboys are bad? Even playboys are better to me.
He don't love his fiance. They were nvr intimate before.
She didn't willingly do it. It was dubcon. She only agree bc she wanted to save her uncle. He knew her situation and want her so he used her situation to get her. Even after they did it, she was not happy about it. She was washing herself fiercely after their sex.
Maybe bc dubcon and forcing sex, humiliating her is enough to hate him?

 

Hi @Sakku to answer your questions:
1. Nope. The ML is not a playboy type. Both ML and FL are each other’s first love.
2. Nope. Matthias never love Claudine the fiancee. Its quite complex… but basically in their society, marriage is more like a business. No nobles marry for love. So Matthias see the marriage as a ’business deal’.
3. Not gonna debate.. because there are two distinctive opinions here. I can only share what I think. Its complex. I did think it was rape at first, but after reading deeper, i started to question it. They were basically on a deal. I suggest for you to read the novel yourself and make your own conclusion but as I said, you need to read it deeply. (I personally read twice now)
4. I’d say a lot is related to how the novel is narrated. The narrative is taken from the FL side. She was in love with the duke from the first sight but she knew their relationship is impossible. So she decided to ’hate’ him instead. So her narrative can confuses us readers.

and no, the duke never block her path for university. In fact, the ML wanted to send her to university when they were together (but she rejected at first). And she will go to university at the end.

Let me be honest, his big mistake in my POV is to have a relationship with FL when he was still engaged. He tried to address this at the end but i think damage is done but then again, the ML never see this whole marriage as love but business. He realised this mistake at the end and tried to fix it.

glad you are interested to know more!

 

Well we all know both Matthias and Layla only shows their not-restraining self to each other right?

it's easy to tell Layla always "faked" herself being Bill and Kyle by always smiling brightly to them. Because we all know, as defense mechanism we don't want people to see them in our negative state. When we ever showed our negative state, people always get tired of us. For exanple i get angry at my friend then we get more distant because it was sad. But if we keep the bright atmosphere, it won't happen. This is Layla's trauma defense mechanism so Bill wouldn't get tired of her then abandon her. She always tried hard not to show she is sad or even injured to him.

and Bill also said this:


But when with Matthias, she always show her true self: crying self, angry, etc. That's why blue candy scene was my favorite. That's when the first time, she let out all her feelings and had him comforted her. And he didn't mind and was happy he was able to be her comfort place. She even said:


Also this is the time when she felt like the little girl Layla's trauma being abandoned by mom was erased.

1. He's not a playboy. Though he has a fiancée but he doesn't love her and their engagement was just pure political. Plus his fiancée has her own love, Riette.
2. There are difference in opinions regarding this. But just wanted to say, this author is not that stupid for making a very traumatized FL ended up happy with their ab**ser right? Every character and her pairs has a reason. if Matthias really raped her and then she had trauma from this why make Layla traumatized already like as we know she has already many traumatic experiences then why writer would go and just start writing a love interest who would give her fl trauma. But thats up to your opinion to believe which. I will not force my opinion.
3. Because of FL's narration. She tends to have prejudice over ML for denying her feelings for falling in love with an engaged man. People tend to believe in narration. And if you want to know what unreliable narrator is:

And this novel is VERY COMPLEX. It has many layers of meanings as it used very complex and heavy metaphors. And detailed psychology description (which problematic prince and bastian don't have, both are very easy novels). You need to reread 2-4 times to really understand it (while doing deep analyze reading without being biased). First time readers will always think the surface reading that it is about psychopath going after his prey. But if you wanted to understand the novel and the true intention the author is trying to tell is not about that at all. The real/true intention is actually very beautiful. By the way I feel sorry for the author, due to this hate people see this masterpiece as trash. The rating in webtoon is getting lower too due to the hate.

but then again, that's up to people's choice on what they wanted to see, I didn't mean to be rude.

AND PLEASE ONLY READ ON YONDER. DO NOT READ FREE WEBSITES TL. They ruined the whole plot.

 

oh ok. wow, thank you for explaining. but i don't think if i read it again from better translation, it would change my mind about the story or the characters. why?

Spoiler: personal reason

because of the cheating/affair/adultery element in it.
you know when u read a fiction, there're certain action/morals u would not tolerate in real life, but since it's fiction you could tolerate it and look the other way and try to enjoy the story as much as possible. With this story, if it's only toxicity and abuse, I could still look the other way. But my dealbreaker in real life and in fiction is cheating. Unfortunately there's cheating here. To me, the moment the author decided to make the main leads have an affair (while she/he could totally decided not to do that since she/he is the author), is the moment I lose all my respect and sympathy for the main leads. i cannot support or sympathize with main characters like that.

I know Claudine and Matthias were not in love. What they have is just an arranged marriage, which they both agreed to do. But even if there is no love, it is still not right to cheat on your partner. Matthias agreed to be engaged with her, but he's also the one who betrayed their partnership first. it's not a love partnership but it's still a partnership anyway, and that makes him a cheater and I can't support a cheater, not in real life not in fiction. yes, there is no love between them, and Claudine is also not the kindest person ever, but she still doesn't deserve to be treated that way. To be disrespected and humiliated by Matthias, the one who agreed to be engaged with her. I actually sympathize with Claudine's monologue after the war where she thought why would Matthias agreed to be with her in the first place if he's not gonna do it anyway. Why the one who's done wrong (a.k.a. affair) got to be happy, while she's not. I just feel so heartbroken for her after finishing the story because what happened to her is just so unfair, especially since Riette died, too. I thought "what Claudine done so wrong that she cannot have her happy ending with the person she loved and loved her back?". Why the biggest asshole in the story, which is the ML, after doing all those things, after humiliating both girls (in different ways) and also abused the FL since they're young, why he still got his happy ending? he's the one who doesn't deserve anything at all. and I don't think he's even sorry for what he did to Claudine. He's a jerk through and through.

And for the FL, no matter how much the author tried to show that she's a saint/victim/abused/sadgirl etc, in my eyes she's still a side chick, because that's how the author decided to write her, a side chick. So yeah to me no matter how much the author tried to show "oh they actually love each other" or "they're love at first sight" or "they're meant to be", all "the love justifies their actions" kind of shit, or "he/she is misunderstood or doesn't understand their feelings yet", the moment they had the affair I cannot enjoy the story anymore, especially since they are supposed to be the main leads of the story.

If there is no cheating/affairs/adultery element in their relationship, or if the cheating/affairs/adultery is done by characters that are not the main leads of the story, then I could see myself enjoying and appreciating the story to some extent. But yeah, that is not what happened, right. to me, it's like a glorified romanticized cheater-side chick toxic love story. that's why it left me a bad aftertaste after I finished reading the story.

Overall, the story is just not for me. I did not realize that cheating/affair/adultery is going to be part of the relationship between the two main leads when I picked this book. Honestly, I regret reading this book hahahah lol

 

Is this your first time to read a series like this?
Again, this story is not unique. You ask this question as if you've never read anything like this.
Leyla is not the first traumatized FL who ended up with a black Flag ML. There are FL's who ended up with trash ML's who abused them.

That doesn't mean those ML's weren't abusive. That doesn't mean those FL's weren't traumatized. That doesn't mean their relationship weren't toxic.

Are you saying all those authors are stupid for making the FL end up with their abuser?or all those ML's weren't wrong? Those FL's weren't abused?

No!
It's just that, there are series that caters for this kind of plot and CEBIYB is one of them.

So it's really funny when you defend Matthias as if he is some kind of misunderstood ML - No, he's not. He just belong to those line up of black flag ML's just as how this story belong to those kind of series.

 

Also since I read this novel too deeply, I would like to tell that Mathias actually got bad ending. He deserved it, doesn't he? Man is actually suffering in side story which he himself didn't realize. Also I do not wish to have debate any further and hurt anyone feelings. So let's end this.

I prefer if we talk about trying to understand the novel tbh.

 

Solche is a great writer! The narrations of each character is so realistic that you can truly feel their emotions. I love all the characters in the book. I even like Claudine. She was groomed since a child to be a perfect Duchess and the fact that Layla comes along without effort and shatters Claudine's sacrifice (not being with Riette) is a normal reaction for her character. Claudine misplaces her anger (not being with Riette) to Layla. Her emotions parallel with Matthias, they both lose their "perfect nobility persona". Matthias is able to let his Duke persona to "die" = metaphor of "canary also dying" while Claudine is too late to let go of her role as Duchess. Tragic for Claudine.


I noticed the greenhouse of Arvis metaphor during my Yonder read. The greenhouse is the symbol and pride of Arivs (perfection, beauty, order, control, enchanting). It's also the location where Claudine plans to have her wedding with Matthias. That "perfection and order" of Matthias's world and wedding to Claudine burns after Matthias's feelings for Layla grow stronger. There is already an illustration reference in the manhwa that the "perfection" is slowly being disrupted. See how in Ch. 12 manhwa that Layla's newspaper mystery story covers Matthias's narration of his "perfect" order of life. You can see the word "perfect" is being covered by Layla's newspaper.




I love the canary metaphor. I wrote about this metaphor earlier in the forum. On the surface you think Layla is the canary but further along and looking deeper the canary was Matthias. Matthias never had control over Layla. Layla had control over Matthias's heart. Matthias was in the cage of Arvis.

Spoiler: Canary Metaphor

I think the main metaphor or “animal allegory” I originally misunderstood was Matthias’s pet canary. On the surface, the obvious canary metaphor is Layla. Matthias adores his canary, he enjoys watching Layla (all of her emotions at that), he clips his canary’s wings just like how he wants to clips Layla's wings. Matthias keeps his canary in his cage just how he wants to keep Layla inside HIS cage of Arvis. He controls his canary just how he wants to control Layla. He also named the canary Layla. On the surface I believe the canary is Layla. At first, the metaphor sounds cruel. Who wants to lock up a bird that should be flying free? Matthias is cruel on the surface. When Layla leaves Matthias he goes into a deep depression. He's a mess. He almost overdoses and is an emotional wreck. His canary dies. You think the canary’s death is a metaphor for Leyla’s freedom. The canary is a metaphor of Matthias dying inside without Layla and Layla killing off his old self, expected responsibilities as a Duke. The canary was Matthias the whole time. Matthias thought he had control of Layla but Layla really had control of Matthias. Matthias is in his own cage at Arvis just like his canary. Matthias is expected to fulfill his role as the lord of Arvis, marry Claudine and keep Layla in the shadow as his mistress. Layla was always free in a sense that he could never have her truly. Layla never wanted to be with an engaged and/or married man. In a sense, the metaphor has a double meaning. The canary is Matthias belief he had control of Layla but Layla always had control from the beginning. Matthias then becomes free and is able to give the love Layla desires.

I also like the ribbon metaphor. The string/ribbon Layla ties on Matthias's wrist is a metaphor of action and promises. A big theme in the story. Matthias never breaks his promises. He doesn’t hurt Phoebe, he doesn't hurt Layla in ch. 60 "I won't hurt you", he releases Bill from jail (Layla had Matthias promise her to release Bill their first night together), and when he returns to Layla just like her birds at Arvis (I loved that part of the story).

I'm now at the climax part of the book and a new metaphor someone pointed out on the Yonder comments is that Layla's baby inside her womb is a metaphor of her emotions towards Matthais!

 

@Spidey1Fan

I totally agree with the died bird = engaged Matthias’s death. Well spoken. Died like his master. They died from emptiness. And after death they got their freedom whey weren’t engaged nor stuck anymore, they killed their past. After leaving Layla, when Matthias was depressed, he thought about his past, he recalled his actions, he got and accepted his mistakes. And he killed past Matthias.


Being in love feels like being trapped. Being trapped with those emotions, with thoughts about your love, and with doubts whether that person loves you as much as you do. Loving person always feeble. As was Matthias. He was also trapped with his “desire” and “love”. He tried deny this “love” but the more he tried the more he deep into his feelings. And when he hit rock bottom, he accepted his “love”, realized his being wrong. And the moment he realized and accepted his love, he got “freedom”. He wasn’t “tamed” anymore.

 

I'm at the part when Matthias joins the war to find Layla. Matthias believed Layla loved him. Earlier in the book of the school play it was a foreshadow that Layla can't act. Layla isn't a good liar or pretender. Even though Layla thought she was deceiving Matthias with her revenge to hurt Matthias by loving him she was only lying to herself. Layla did love Matthias but she didn't want to be with the engaged Matthias so she lied to herself that Matthias was a bad guy. Her narration is realistic as it was Layla lying to herself, lying to the readers.

Ch. 137 - Matthias let's Layla go

Matthias: "If I can't be your sky, Layla....then I will let you go. So, go. Fly away from me and find your sky. Fly away before my love for you makes me kill you." The word sky is heaven in Yonder but a Korean translator said it's supposed to be sky which makes sense as metaphorically Layla is a bird.

Ch. 137 Matthias never wanted to kill Layla. Matthias wanted to kill his love and pain for Layla.

"Despite all his posturing, he knew deep down that he could never harm even a single strand of her hair. Even when he had resolved to find her and kill her, he had already known this. He had told himself that if he couldn't have her, he was going to put an end to his intense longing by ending her life. Even in that moment, however, he had known he was lying to himself. She was his ruler, his queen. There was no way he could kill her."

So many nuances and subtle details in the book.

 

@Spidey1Fan

Layla also tried deny her feelings towards Matthias, because she thought it was “wrong”. She thought her feelings “will fail anyway” as her parents married with love and soon divorced. She also thought that their “love with Matthias will be end”. She had wrong point of view about this feeling. Love for Layla associated with “pain” “abandonment” and “hurt”. As she got hurt too much on her life, she tried to protect herself i.e her feelings. That’s why she neither accepted her own feelings nor the duke’s feelings. She just wasn’t ready for deep feelings, because of her past traumas, she was full filled with those traumas. When she got healed little by little she began accept and realize her “warm feelings”

 

That's why Layla kept her emotions distant from Matthias and said things like, "Just get it over with.", "Why would you pay for my college tuition?" Matthias replies, "I just want to be nice I guess." Layla doesn't want him to be nice. She wants him to be cruel to deny her true feelings.

 

@Spidey1Fan
When we hate someone they couldn’t hurt us,only close and loved ones can hurt us. It’s human psychology “defense mechanism”. To protect ourselves.

 

I loved when she described the candy as bitter that Matthias gave her during her first aid. I loved how Leyla was compared to a free bird and when Matthias pondered how Leyla's light would plummet if he keeps her in shade, which gave readers a view of his covered thoughts despite his rude remarks, even he can't help but accept that Leyla is that shining bird which is only lively while flying high, because the sky is her limit.

There are a lot more, I can't seem to remember many of them at this moment though.

 

@mireimisty

My favorite one is “Uncle Bill’s rose” metaphor. For me Layla associated “the rose with thorns” But both “the canary” and “rose” are quite similar. They are both “weak and feeble” and “need special care”.

I associate Layla “rose with thorns”. Thorns which for “protection and security”.

Roses are “feeble” despite their “sublimity and thorns”. As was Layla her “weakness” despite “majesty pride”. As roses need special care and “fertilizers” also Layla needed “emotional care and gentle treatment”. She was “the rose of Arvis”.

But she also was wrapped in thorns i.e overwhelmed with past traumas.

The thorns was her “defense mechanism” to protect from loneliness and sadness. But most rose lovers nevermind the thorns, they will love the roses despite “the thorns”. Even if they would get hurt by those thorns they won’t stop loving roses. As was Matthias, he loved Layla despite her past and her dark sides.

 

Hi @spchntrt yes I understand. This story is totally not for everyone. I understand your frustration. I personally don't support cheaters as well. I like this novel because it was very nicely written by the Author with metaphors. It feels a little bit like peeling layers of a present.

And I do agree, we have to accept that Matthias and Layla were in an affair. If you want to give it a try, do read Bastian or Problematic Prince. But the ML there are definitely red flags. but not from cheating perspective. No cheating there, just bastard husbands. lol

Blue candy is also my favourite! @Cookiemonster_007isback ! Because it signified when Layla was healed from her abandonment trauma.

wow I never think of that @moonlight07 . I love when you said 'Most rose lovers nevermind the thorns, they will love the roses despite the thorns.' I found another rose metaphor but it relates to Kyle and Layla!

I was so heartbroken ofc about Kyle, but I appreciate that Layla was honest of her own feeling. And there was a moment in chap 42 between Layla and Kyle that explained how their relationships were not meant to be.

Remember, Kyle went to Layla and said to run away together? On that day was also the day Layla applied to be a teacher, and Solche wrote "Layla wore a clean pristine blouse." Kyle was holding to Layla and didn't want to let her go. Bill rushed to them and punched Kyle in the face. thennnn..

"Kyle stumbled and started to fall, but still didn't let go of her hand. Thus, she was pulled along with him and they both tumbled into the rose bed." They both got hurt from the fall.

And the paragraph ended:
"Gasping like he was being strangled, he hugged her tightly. Her pristine white blouse was soon wet with his tears and blood."

I think things between them are really sad. Solche camouflaged the reality of their relationship. If Kyle insisted and not letting go, both of them would be hurt. They both fell into the rose bed and bleed. But why did Solche wrote 'pristine white blouse'?

In the previous chapter, Layla chose to wore the white blouse for her interview. Some people showed pity on her but she did not care. Layla as a character has been always full of pride with the way she lives. She never wanted to be pitied by people despite of her background. But even during the turmoil of Kyle, she wanted to keep Kyle in her life (as a friend), that is why she accepted the proposal. When she let Kyle go, it was a mix of her realisation of her true feeling to Kyle and admitting she also could not back down her pride after what Kyle's mom did (because thats what Kyle's mom did, she attacked her pride).

And, her decision to do this also hurt Kyle as her pristine white blouse was soon wet with Kyle's tears and blood.

Their story of friendship is really sad. But I am amazed how Solche wrote the metaphor of their destiny using this metaphor.