Spoiler Cry, Even Better if you Beg

@kaori_miori

Description "Great Maiden's Blush"

'Great Maiden's Blush' is a tall, slender It has medium, very full borne mostly solitary, or in small clusters of up to five, and has a globular, deeply cupped bloom form. The rose has a strong fragrance. The young buds tend to have a creamy yellow color on the outside. The flower petals are creamy-white or white in the bud, then pale pink, and finally fade again to white. It is not overly pricky, has relatively few thorns. It tolerates shade and it can be grown on or beside north-facing walls (in the northern hemisphere). It has enough strength and vigor that it can be used as a climber. Cultivars, it is very winter hardy, a tall shrub with arching branches. It blooms in spring only.


This sort of rose 'Great Maiden's Blush', literally describes Layla’s character: She was “maiden”, tall and slender as her curves, mostly solitary as her loneliness, deeply cupped bloom form as her deep and heavy past. Strong fragrance that attracted the duke’s attention. Creamy yellow like Layla’s light hair. Her blush from creamy-white to pale pink. And the thorns which were for “protection and security” from hurting. Enough strength and vigor that can be used climber as her life through her traumas. It blooms in spring only, she was born in the spring.

That’s why I think “Uncle Bill’s rose” most suitable for Layla’s character rather than “The Canary”.

She was “the rose of Arvis” that attracted Matthias’s attention with her pure beauty. But as all roses, she had her own “thorns”. She was wrapped by those thorns i.e past traumas.

"Only you know my heart, my true self"

Only person who could able to see Layla's “true nature” with her dark sides and “inner feelings” was Matthias. And as her “dark sides” didn’t discourage Matthias, she could show him her “true self”. Matthias accepted her WHOLE, with her “insulting past”. She was haggard by negative emotions, and the duke also accepted those emotions despite them being directed at him.

I can say same for Matthias, he showed his “dark sides” and his “true self” only to Layla. I love this quote form the book “Haunting Adeline”, it says:

“When you make someone fall in love with darkest parts of you, there’s nothing you can do that will scare them away. They will be yours forever because they already love all the f*cked up bits and pieces of you”.

It’s not same but quite similar to Matthias’s character. He was himself with Layla, not the perfect nobleman nor the powerful duke of Arvis. When he was with Layla he wanted just to be boyfriend->lover->partner.

Both of them showed each other their darkest sides they were for each other “comfort zone” and this made their love stronger.

 

I love your interpretation! @mireimisty

And there are some my points about their What if… relationship?

I think Layla’s and Kyle’s friendship or engagement would be “full of tears and blood” if they continued their relationship.

1. Because of Kyle’s mother. Mrs. Ettman is very ambitious woman. Her ambitions was above her child’s happiness. She thought that her actions were for Kyle’s sake. But actually she thought about herself, her “noble status” was over everything, she was scheme woman. She had very low opinion of Layla. Kyle as loving son never could handle both “mother” and “wife->Layla” together in the same position. And that’s why Layla said to Kyle “There is no place in the world where we can be happy together, just the two of us”. It shows that they never could be happy. Their way will be always separately.

2. Because of the duke. Matthias would never let them be together. That time his love was “obsessive” one. Obsessive love has no limits. I think he would “throw the monkey wrench into” their life. So if there were no Kyle’s mother, there would be Matthias. Their relationship would fail anyway.

 

I totally agree... I think it can work if Layla does love Kyle back as a man just like how she loves Matthias. But in the scenario where Layla only sees him as a friend, I don't think Layla would have the strength to face Kyle's mom nor the duke (the person she was truly attracted to). The world that Layla wants is a world where they can stay as best friend forever.

But I am curious, if lets say Layla continued the engagement, what will Matthias do? Do you think he will go as desperate as Kyle's mom?

 

@mireimisty
Wow, I think so! She never saw "a man" on Kyle. He was her family, her friend. And when they engaged she felt awkwardness when she thought about their life as "husband and wife" She couldn't imagine that. And when Kyle tried to kiss her she rejected, it means she couldn't accept his "touch". She couldn't handle his mother's insults if they got married. By the way, she would have recalled Matthias сonstantly, even after she got married. Because she always sees on him "a man".

But unfortunately, they even couldn't stay as friends.

About Matthias' actions, I think he would have gone as far as it would be possible to separate them and have her for himself. He was obsessed at that time. At first he thought it would be fine if she will marry to Kyle. But soon he realizes that he isn't ready to let her go.
Here want to add, that he also wanted to protect Layla, from Kyle's mom. If you remember when at the party which held at mansion and Layla was invited. Matthias saw Mrs. Ettman to introduce Kyle with baron's daughter. That moment he thought about Layla, that she never would've been accepted by Mrs. Ettman. He wanted protect her from this ambitious woman. That's why I have 2 points.
1. He wanted Layla for himself.
2. He wanted protect her from further anguish.
But I think first one fits more, who knows

 

Yes agree. I think their type of love is not the that easy to understand. Imagine love that accepts both dark and light side of yours? And true, the fact Matthias as the Duke always have to wear a mask and Layla always have to 'smile', none of them are completely real to the people around them. It is actually quite sad But when they are together, they show their real faces to each other.

Its beautiful, strong yet really dark in the same time. LOL.
That is why some people said, it made a lot of sense that Layla chose Matthias at the end. He is the place where she can be herself (both bad and good).

And the thing with Kyle, that I somehow think is quite regretful. When he told his dad that he wanted to marry Layla. I figured that the dad actually said:
"Do you really care for Layla that much? As for Layla going to college, well, I can certainly help out with that by sponsoring her."

Kyle answered "Of course, I want Layla to be able to continue studying the things she's interested in. But Father, what I want most of all is to marry her (AKA, marrying Layla is first, Layla's wish to continue college as secondary)." and Kyle ended his plead by saying "Please help me keep her in my life, Father."

Kyle put his own wish to keep Layla as the priority (and supporting Layla for college is secondary). This is when I felt his affection was also obsessive. He had a choice to prioritise Layla going to college, since his dad said he is willing to sponsor her. But well, sigh, we knew what he put as priority...

So what if Kyle prioritised Layla going to college? Maybe, Layla actually would go to college sponsored by Kyle's dad. And maybe, maybeee... in a long future Layla might accept Kyle? What do you think of this if scenario?

Do you think that there is a sliver of chance for Kyle if he put Layla first?

 

@mireimisty

Yes, I totally agree with you!


I love this part: “He is the place where she can be herself (both bad and good).”


I think that’s why she chose him. When we can be with someone true ourself we will love this person we will cherish this person. Because this person accepted us as we are i.e without mask. I love the theory, that “everyone wears the mask”. It’s so true. All we have the “masks” and only loved ones can see us through the “mask” and never will get disappointed. Because they are already know about our “dark sides” and accepted us with them.


About Kyle you pointed right, he was obsessive and want to add he was SELFISH. At chapter 23. He thought:


“I’ll will never lose you. I won’t let there be a distance between us. How could you suggest that there should be”


If you give attention there are key words: “I will never” “I won’t let” “How could you suggest” it means he was selfish, his feelings and emotions were at the first place. Isn’t it makes a sense, is it?


And yes, he prioritized their marriage rather than Layla’s academic future.


At the chapter 24, Kyle said:


“I want to be a good person toward Layla….”

“Without her I wouldn’t have the self-confidence…”

“I don’t want to lose her”

“Please help me to keep her in my life”


Isn’t it selfishness rather that true love? He never said that he “loves” her. Every time he repeated I, I, I. Matthias’ love was also obsessive at the beginning but he wasn’t such a selfish like Kyle.


I’m not quite sure about Layla’s sponsorship by Kyle’s dad, after all we need consider the factor Mrs. Ettman. She knew his son’s feelings towards Layla. She could resist Layla’s education with her son.


I think if they got married (Layla and Kyle) she might be happy. But not as much as with Matthias. Matthias always prioritized Layla and her sake. After all Layla didn’t love Kyle, she was used to see him as friend. And Kyle never noticed her traumas, she would be doomed live with those traumas for rest of her life. Sigh

 

The metaphor of Layla as a rose is a compelling representation, particularly evident in Matthias's remarkable acceptance of the thorns surrounding her. Like a delicate rose with thorns, Layla's complexities and emotional struggles become apparent, and Matthias embraces them without reservation. For instance, when Layla expresses her intense feelings of hatred towards him, Matthias, instead of reacting with anger, remains consistently calm and composed. In the face of Layla's emotional thorns, he encourages her to "hate me," demonstrating an unwavering love that transcends her moments of anger.

Layla, burdened with her own trauma, finds solace in Matthias. While she wears a forced smile around others, such as Bill and Kyle, she reveals her true emotions exclusively in Matthias's presence. In their interactions, Layla is free to express her genuine self, and Matthias reciprocates by being playful, smiling, and laughing, creating an environment where both can be authentic and vulnerable.

A poignant illustration of Matthias accepting the thorns unfolds when Kyle discovers Matthias and Layla's relationship. Kyle, heartbroken by the realization that Layla loves Matthias, reacts with emotional turmoil, unable to accept Layla's flaws in choosing Matthias. In contrast, Matthias faces Layla's anger head-on, acknowledging her emotions without judgment. Despite Kyle's initial reservations about Matthias's biased love, a transformative journey ensues, leading to Kyle's eventual acceptance of Layla's profound love for Matthias.

In this intricate dance of emotions and relationships, the metaphor of the rose beautifully captures Matthias's enduring acceptance of Layla's complexities, showcasing a love that withstands the thorns and allows both characters to bloom in their authenticity.

 

Genuinely wanted to ask the people here who hated Matthias so much by insisted he's a rapist but then you guys are okay when Bastian raped Odette.

When it's obvious Matthias gave 3-5 days for Layla to make up her mind and gave her choices. While Bastian even though he said he "respects" her decision but then it didn't even take 5 minutes til he r*ped Odette.

is this biased? Also like the people mostly say this novel is very complex and have very detailed psychology description. Meaning it has a very realistic characterisation unlike author's other two novels which are very stereotypical and lack of depth. And the fact you just see what you want to see without understanding his true nature pretty much saying what kind of person you are. Also you can't judge a character when you don't even understand them.

Though if you chose to be close-minded and relentlessly being rude, that is just again showing your nature.

 

Acckh! i just finished my 2nd reading and i still wanted more side stories i really love the story despite the hate it got. I can't get enough of it after my 2nd reading and i want to express it here I think a lot of readers misunderstood Mathias' character that's why they hated him. That's why i suggest to read this novel twice for better understanding.

Would you mind telling me if "Bastian" is worth reading? cuz i'm trying to find light novels to read with European ambiance like CEBIYB.

 

Precisely!

Matthias accepted Layla with “thorns” he didn’t mind to get hurt. He never reacted to her anger and anxiety negatively, instead he was incredibly patient. He continued embracing and her with “thorns”, even he got hurt from these thorns. When she was in his embrace, “she felt like she'd come home”. When people at home they can be themselves. They will fell comfort and warmth. As like Layla, when she was Matthias’ embrace.

Also, I want to mix two metaphors “The Canary” and “Uncle Bill’s rose”.

Layla was rose called “Great Maiden’s Blush” with relatively few thorns. Matthias was “The Canary” who was in cage, his wings were clipped with “engagement”. He was doomed bounce back and forth between his obligation and love. He was the bird who loved thorns “The Thorn Bird”. No matter he will get hurt or not, he always flies to this rose with thorns. “The rose” which had a strong fragrance magnetized “the canary”.

I think so, this story is good with its depth. There are too many nuances. The characters are well described. Real “literary fiction” with “darkness”, which is not for everyone. Most readers give attention only dark sides of the story, but they didn’t know depth of these sides. I would like describe this novel as “prism” if you are “light” person you will see the beauty i.e. rainbow, if you are “dark” person you will see only shadow. It’s true that this novel contains psychological context and heavy love story. Anyway it’s just fiction, we should discuss it without hate and prejudices.

 

What an interesting thought! And yes, I can totally see Layla fits a "rose" interpretation. She is beautiful yet full of thorns from her past. Her way of protecting herself from more trauma is by showing up her thorns. I think both Kyle and Matthias had been absolutely hurt by her thorns. But Matthias is the one who she chose. Matthias is also the one who love everything about her. Great description!

What I love about the novel is you could see clearly the progression of Matthias love. He is not perfect, he is full of flaws. But the progression made it felt real. His love clearly transformed from crush >>> obsession >>> obsessive love >>> to pure love.

He is not that un-realistic ML that already have pure love from the start. His love transformed along the time. Same as Layla too, her feeling started as pure crush to love. This is what I rarely found in Knovel or manhwa. A real transformation of feelings. Because in real life, your feelings grow and change You don't suddenly 'love' someone.

What an interesting thought! And yes, I can totally see Layla fits a "rose" interpretation. She is beautiful yet full of thorns from her past. Her way of protecting herself from more trauma is by showing up her thorns. I think both Kyle and Matthias had been absolutely hurt by her thorns. But Matthias is the one who she chose. Matthias is also the one who love everything about her. Great description!

What I love about the novel is you could see clearly the progression of Matthias love. He is not perfect, he is full of flaws. But the progression made it felt real. His love clearly transformed from crush >>> obsession >>> obsessive love >>> to pure love.

He is not that un-realistic ML that already have pure love from the start. His love transformed along the time. Same as Layla too, her feeling started as pure crush to love. This is what I rarely found in Knovel or manhwa. A real transformation of feelings. Because in real life, your feelings grow and change You don't suddenly 'love' someone.

I am now in the process of reading Bastian. I do like Bastian! It is more heavy in politic and veryyyy angsty. Just as a heads-up, Bastian is a real cruel red flag. So be prepared for a roller-coaster ride. But his story of redemption won my heart. He decided to change by his own will

 

@mireimisty

Thank you

Layla chose Matthias because he was the only one who accepted her whole with thorns. Her thorns didn’t push him away.


About his love yes, it seems me his love starts from desire->obsession->obsessive love->absolute love.

I would rather say “Absolute Love” instead of "Pure Love" because absolute love not dependents on any temporary conditions and never-ending desire to give, after all, itself – overtly and totally. Which did Matthias at the end of the story. His love was absolute, Layla’s sake was above himself, when he decided to marry her against his family, status and obligations. In our world unfortunately every relationship based “pull and push” theory. And this kind of love really rare among “lovers and spouses” Though, scientists said: mother’s love always absolute. Our mothers love us, without expecting anything in return and us whole with wounds and thorns. And I'm totally AGREE!

 

Maybe this novel is really about Matthias learning about love through Layla. LOL.

Also, I really would like to discuss about "The Deal". The center event that changed the dynamic of their relationship. Something interesting about the deal between Matthias and Layla is that. None of them realised that they both feel they are the one underhanded. I know this topic will be very hard to swallow, and you can choose to not agree with me (and that is fine).

I used to study negotiation back in university and realised what the two experienced during "the deal" process was "Loss Aversion".
Loss Aversion is a theory where we as human being tend to be scared of LOSING something eventhough the reward is high. Therefore, we tend to prevent LOSS rather than focusing on GAINING. So if you put into the formula:

Layla was scared to lose uncle Bill, that was why she'd rather agree to a deal knowing it secured uncle Bill's fate, hence she would not be left alone. Yet for Matthias, he was damn scared that Layla would leave Arvis. So he would rather agree to a deal that made sure Layla couldn't leave at an expense of his happiness (and Layla ofc). "The Deal" that they did was actually FAR OFF from the ideal deal they wished to have. You may think it makes sense that this deal is far from ideal from Layla perspective, but not from Matthias perspective.

But let me bring you to this passage in Chapt 68 (Read in Yonder okay, don't argue if you read from fansTL, they wrote things differently):

"Of course, he knew that it wouldn't get him the happiness that he most wanted. But before he could get that, he needed to ensure that she would stay near him. In the end, he was going to get the happiness he desired, even if it meant having to turn the order of things upside down. "

How I interpreted this passage is:

The happiness that he most wanted: Layla's heart.
This is his ultimate wish. and for him, the minimum way to get it is by ensuring Layla stay near to him. This is what he got from the deal. It is almost a bare minimum. And he knew he would turn the order of things upside down. So he never wanted to push her into this deal of becoming the mistress. What he wanted is to get Layla's heart at her own wish but he is very desperate of losing her that he just striked any deal that Layla offered.

Yes. I know you are going to throw me stone. But if you read clearly in chapter 67 and 68, Layla was the first that assumed the Duke wanted her body as the deal. Matthias mistake was he just swallowed the deal as it is because he was scared of losing her. And for Layla, she just swallowed the deal because she was scared of losing Uncle Bill.

Can Layla made the deal differently and get a beneficial deal from Matthias?

Most likely. If she realised that she hold a higher position in this deal, she should have striked a beneficial deal with Matthias by just giving bare minimum of what he wanted by not leaving Arvis. Unfortunately, Matthias was a smart businessman, he opened the table to Layla and only said "I wanted a deal". and Layla answered "I can't do that, you are married to Claudine." She just gave in a deal that is... quite not beneficial for her without even negotiating. Do you feel something odd? Yes Matthias only said he wanted a deal and Layla interpreted the deal herself.

Conclusion: None of them got the best deal due to their loss aversion

So, What do you think of Matthias and Layla's Deal?

 

I'm nearly finished with my second read on Yonder and I sense that I've experienced a markedly different story compared to the fan translation. It's no surprise that some people perceive Matthias as somewhat of a psycho.

I plan to read Bastian next! I heard he's a big bastard!

 

Oh yeap. Big bastard. the real big bastard of Solche's universe is still hold by Bastian IMO.

And same as me! FansTL made a complete different character of Matthias. I am glad I found Yonder!

 

@Spidey1Fan
I want too! Let’s start read together we can discuss every chapter also we can help each other to get depth of the story)

 

Wow you perfectly described!


I’m totally agree with you.


Layla was feared to be lonely AGAIN, if Uncle Bill would be in jail. Also she felt guilt towards him that he raised her through the years and yet she couldn’t help him in such a heavy time.


And want to add some aspects about Layla’s acceptance the deal. Those parts mostly misunderstood by many others.

1. Before coming the cabin to “talk about the deal” she already decided accept “the deal”. Which, give attention “conditions of the deal wasn’t clear. Matthias never talked about what deal it would be and under what conditions.”
2. When she came to cabin she asked Matthias “… if you’re willing to leave a stain on your life for the sake of your lust for a woman who is nothing to you… won’t that harm to your reputation?” “So please ask something else of me. Anything…”. Than Matthias told about her father’s and grandfather’s reputation and about their “mistresses”. And again didn’t mention about her will be his mistress. He just made clear her mind up.
3. After Layla asked “Then are you saying… you really intend to take me as your mistress” But Matthias even didn’t answer “He simply continued smiling at her without sayin anything” Give attention key word here “continued smiling” he just continued smiling without any change on his facial expressions. People can talk by facial expressions i.e he could say “yes” by smiling wider or grinning. But he even didn’t do that.

So, he never said in voice that he want her to be his mistress, nor he push to accept “the deal” which interpreted by Layla herself.


And yes, I’m agree with you there is none of them “winner” they both lost by accepting this “deal”.

 

Man wtf is wrong with people it was rape yet people keep on denying it cause Matthias makes there coochie tinglly.

 

This is an interesting analysis. Kyle was also obsessive with Layla but because we are seeing the story from Layla's conflicting emotional narration, we oversee Kyle's obsessive love for Layla. I thought it was hurtful when Kyle tells Layla, "Don't touch me!", I understand his pain, but Matthias never says that to Layla even after all the harm Layla caused Matthias. Layla hurt Kyle and then he rejected her. While Matthias is hurt many times by Layla, yet he accepts her thorns.

It's so refreshing to discuss the subtle details, metaphors, complex characters of this book. Like what @mireimisty "It feels a little bit like peeling layers of a present." When you read deeper into the book it's a very good, realistic, turmoil and beautiful story.

@mireimisty This is also why I loved CEBIUB novel so much. The narration and characters are so realistic! The metaphors are beautiful. Love is not "perfect" in real life.

You summarized their "DEAL" perfectly! They were both afraid to lose something and willing to accept the terms so they won't lose. On the surface when you read the chapter it's cringey and you think Layla doesn't have a choice. This part of the story is very nuanced. There are subtle complexities of the social and historical backdrop, Layla's inner emotions and motivations are not full disclosed to the readers or Matthias. Matthias was desperate to not lose Layla. If you read again Layla is the one who makes the terms, not Matthias. Matthias goes along with Layla's bias view towards him. Layla wants to see Matthias as a monster so she won't get hurt.

The FTL did this chapter and story dirty.

There is so much nuance to the story.

 

Oh I want to help answer to this, it's obvious he sees the canary as Layla, but still the canary is not her. Because Layla could never be like the canary who accepted him who is still bird in the cage (hadn't broken his engagement yet). Also he adored the canary because it's his wish to be able to adore Layla and treated her kindly (but it's hard since she always refused him and ran away from him, or she always started fight, so his wish to try to treat her kind always failed)

and as for this, definitely do not read on the surface that clip Layla's wings = chained Layla. It just simply meant he wanted her to be near him, he wanted to her to be by his side. So they could spend more time together. He just wanted to have normal love story with her. But ofc, this wouldn't happen because Layla will always reject, ignore and run away from him. Because, again, he is still the canary / bird in the cage who hadn't broken his engagement yet. Layla's wish is to be outstanding adult just like Uncle Bill wanted, being a mistress will make her failed to be one.

Hmmm if it's metaphor keeping her in the cage, just like I previously stated he didn't want her to leave and wanted to spend more time with her. Also, speaking of controlling. Let's understand Layla never asks or knows what she actually wanted, so he had to be controlling. For example, in that scene where she was injured after the incident with Riette, she was hiding her wounds, definitely didn't want to tell anyone especially Bill. So he had to be controlling and summoned her like he is so he could treat his wound. Same with when she became emaciated (although yes it's because of him / broken heart), he asked her to come to cabin so she would eat. Then the date scene, the war scene too (he had to forced her to eat and sleep so she could eat and sleep more, and she even admitted herself that she could eat and sleep more when she's with Matthias.)

also, don't forget that she couldn't eat properly even when Bill was around. And had a hard time sleeping at night because that's her time with Matthias in the past.

so anyway he actually helped her. Also fun fact! Layla is arabic name means "night" so you could see how solche already planned this story so thoroughly. It's saying their relationship started at night. Then also Layla = Islamic's name, Matthias = Christianity's name -> DIFFERENT RELIGION = DIFFERENCE IN STATUS which you can tell it's the main issue of the story. A man and woman who desperately wanted to be together but couldn't because difference in status and btw both fell in love at first sight. Layla fell inlove with 18 yrs old Matthias (she blushed a lot, saying with similes that his voice is like a waterfowl feather which mean she likes his voice, she also mentioned his features),

Matthias fell in love with 18 yrs old Layla

proof that they really fell at first sight? You could see in novels they mentioned bicycle scene a lot as if remember it was the time when their hearbeats were beating so fast. And you could see this is a sort of metaphor (symbolisms) bicycle wheels spinning around = heart beating fast = fall in love at first sight (won't exactly say love, it's physical attraction)
then when she fell from her bicycle her bicyle turned upside down = their life turned 180 degrees = Layla's safe world started to fall apart = Matthias's perfect life started to fall apart = their rocky love story started

And Lastly, he named the canary Layla because he wished to be loved, he wished Layla to love him just like the canary loved him. But Layla never accepted him until he broke his engagement did she? So the canary is not really Layla, it's just his wish and imagination to be accepted by her. And he wanted the canary to be Layla so he named it Laylw. But it was never her...

also the metaphor definitely ruined things lol. It made him seems cruel. People who read on surface will definitely see him as one. This is why literature is amazing! It can really manipulate things even turned a bad guy into a good guy or the other way around. If you studied literature, you'll get me. The metaphors in this novel is not just mere beautiful sentences like people are saying as if it has no meaning. It has. A lot of meaning.

again, the canary is Matthias who stuck in his cage then -> he became free migratory birds aka free Matthias whom Layla (who very against being a mistress) finally accepted and that's why she tied her ribbon in his arm to sign that she finally she accepted him and loved him back

And doesn't his smile here seemed genuine?

And even some korean knows that it wasn't forced but truly natural smile thinking of Layla...