Spoiler Cry, Even Better if you Beg

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by flamingorangesoof, Jul 8, 2020.

  1. Spidey1Fan

    Spidey1Fan Well-Known Member

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    @kaori_miori thank you or explaning the metaphors! The metaphors have deep meaning. I love the writing and characters in this novel.


    Yes, I saw that too on the manhwa. Matthias is attracted to her "free bird spirit". He's the canary locked in the cage captivated by the bird Layla flying free in the Arvis sky.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2023
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  2. keppinx

    keppinx Member

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    Genuinely asking again, if you randomly had "one night stand" with a random man. Maybe you could say it's consensual since you guys agreed to it. But then tomorrow the man you slept with is playing victim then spread rumor that you forced it on him. Then that means you rape him, then?

    Okay let's just say it is rape then about what happened to you and what Matthias was doing. But that's your opinion. You can't attack people and force your opinion on them. Please stop acting like you are morally right when your attitude is morally wrong. Yeah okay it's rape to you, but let people have their own opinion. Beside these people seemed to know the novel more than you. Also may I ask if you read it in woopre** or mtl? Which the tl itself is bad.

    Also is any Matthias's haters here who never complain about Bastian's rap** not gonna say something? Also to me, what Bastian did is indeed rape. That is undeniably truth. And you guys are fine with it but attacking Matthias nonstop. It's biased, right? Please don't come to me and say "Because Odette betrayed him." No, rape is rape.

    Again, what Matthias's was doing depends on each's opinion and how much they know the novel which I think should be respected without having to attack real people.

    Attacking people doesn't seem morally right actions to me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2023
  3. moonlight07

    moonlight07 Well-Known Member

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    @kaori_miori

    Yes it is! His smile here the genuine one!

    His smile was always genuinely when he was with Layla. He was “sincere” from very beginning. No matter what was it, his smile or his feelings or yet his emotions.

    His gaze always was “calm and warm” when he looked at Layla, his expressions was “composed”. As eyes never can lie, pay attention to his eyes, here his gaze full of “warmth” as well as his “smile”
     
  4. moonlight07

    moonlight07 Well-Known Member

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    "Ruined Heaven"


    Guys, I want to continue our discussion about “Metaphors”


    How do you think about “Ruined Heaven” metaphor? Can we relate “ruined heaven” with “Layla’s life”? Is it makes a sense if we interpreter as Layla’s further life as mistress and her ruined dream to become “an outstanding adult”? Or as Matthias’ “perfect life” was over when he was trapped by own feelings and yet Claudine’s failed “perspective future to be married with the duke”. Maybe in general, after “ruined heaven” Arvis also totally changed. The trigger was “Ruined Heaven” i.e “Arvis’s greenhouse” that all those nobles “cherished and cared”. Since greenhouse has been burnt to ashes their “peaceful life” was over.

    "Metaphorical State of Mind:

    • Alternatively, "ruined heaven" could be a metaphor for a state of mind or a personal experience. It might describe a situation where something that was once perceived as perfect or blissful has been marred or tainted, perhaps due to negative experiences or a change in perspective."

    If you paid attention, whole chapter 66. said: “Arvis’s heaven” but chapter’s title calls “Ruined Heaven”.

    Doesn’t that mean, it’s also one of Solche’s great metaphors?

    Once “Arvis’s heaven ruined”, Layla’s “restful life” was also ruined with it. After greenhouse had been burnt, uncle Bill has been taken to jail. Layla decided to “beg” the duke to drop the charges from uncle Bill, and have had mercy for him. But instead she got “offer” which was perfectly described (by @mireimisty Thanks her!). Her whole life was upside down by this offer.


    “She felt like she had just awoken from a dream-a beautiful but brutal nightmare”


    So, in her mind “her dream like life ruined”. Because after this accident she became “mistress” which she mostly hated and its changed her life. It was turning moment in her life, her “beautiful nightmare”, which she took pleasure with the man she “used to hate”. As she became mistress, she thought that she couldn’t even more to be “outstanding adult”. Her life goal also was ruined.

    As “Arvis’s greenhouse” was symbol and pride of the duchy, after ruining greenhouse the duke’s “prideful and perfect” life changed. He got chance to keep Layla by his side, but didn’t get happiness which he most wanted. He pushed himself into the hole, he’s stuck in his feelings. That’s why they both did gain nothing from the “fair deal”. He’s no longer lived in this “heaven”. It was “negative experience” for both.

    If we interpreter “ruined heaven” from Claudine’s side, she loved the greenhouse. It was also her pride as to-be-soon duchess. Her dream was to hold their wedding ceremony with the duke inside greenhouse. With burned greenhouse her dream-perspective to be married the duke was shattered. Claudine’s most desired position “life goal” to be duchess soon was failed.

    Ruined heaven —> The deal —> Lives upside down —> Shattered dream


    What do you think about it, does it make a sense?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2023
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  5. mireimisty

    mireimisty Well-Known Member

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    @moonlight07 Yes! I agree with you. I think thats the unique part of their deal process.

    Matthias is shadowing his fear of losing Layla by staying silent. He let Layla to put the 'first' deal. I do think that this is because he wanted to draw Layla to put the deal that she 'wanted' nor 'assumed'. Both of them are in real stress losing their individual goal.

    And as you mentioned, Layla was trying to lure and understand his thought over being a 'mistress'. But this is when I started to ponder "Why did Layla assume that the deal is being a mistress? Did she really think Matthias was 'appraising' her body when he looked at her?"

    Again, this is very very tough to accept. But there was a passage that revealed what was inside Layla's mind when they discussed the deal. It was written at chap 68 (again, read in Yonder. I have checked in FansTL and this was translated very confusingly):

    "She thought of the way the duke had looked at her (when he looked at Layla when discussing the deal), and her whole body started to tremble with shame. If he had been looking at her with lust, she wouldn't have felt as humiliated. Instead, his gaze had been calm and composed, and perhaps a little amused. She knew that look well. It was the same look he had on his face when he went hunting, as well as when he was cruelly tormenting her."

    Isn't that interesting? So, did Layla know that he was not looking at her with lust? If she knew he was not looking at her with lust, why did Layla reacted as if Matthias was asking for her body? I was pondering hard.... on this section. Like really hard.

    But then maybe, just maybe, Layla did want Matthias to look at him with lust. Why?
    Because if he did, Layla can have a reason to hate him and she could deny her feeling for Matthias further.

    So she pushed further with the offering, asking Matthias for another confirmation if the offer is what he wanted, and because Matthias was so damn scared of losing, he accepted whatever deal Layla put on the table.

    What is also interesting, this is the first time both of them revealed what they think about being a mistress mean to them. For Layla, it is ruining her ultimate dream to be an outstanding adult, and for Matthias, it is a showcase of love.

    I am not here for discussing the bad and good of mistress. But I personally think the way Solche wrote about "The Deal" was sooo intriguing and deeply layered. And I agree as well that this novel cannot be read on the surface level. You'd miss a lot of details and psychology inside. Solche showed how human can be very complex and layered. Sigh, I will definitely miss CEBYB...

    Oh my... You wrote it very nicely! I never think of the "Ruined Heaven" as one of Solches metaphor before you wrote it. As you said, the "Arvis Greenhouse" is a symbol of "prideful and perfect" life for a lot of people in Arvis. When it was burnt, it triggered a dramatic change for a lot of people involved.

    I always thought that the ruined heaven only involved Matthias and Claudine, but you are right. Layla was also heavily impacted. Her dream to be "an outstanding adult" also got ruined since this event. It actually was the biggest trigger in everyone's life in Arvis.

    I also would like to add regarding how Claudine and Matthias perceive "Arvis Greenhouse" differently.
    Claudine and Matthias mother love Arvis Greenhouse so much. It symbolises how despite they are like birds caged inside a 'beautiful solarium', yet they still love its extravagant comfortable life and were not willing to go out.

    I honesty wonder if Matthias think the same way. Throughout "The Deal", I felt that he actually didn't care at all about the fate of the Arvis Greenhouse. He was feeling indifferent towards it. So maybe he was not feeling any pride about being a noble? But the ruined heaven did mean that he could now fly out of the 'cage'.

    So does that mean, although "the Deal" was not perfect for him, it actually led to him flying out of his 'perfect' life? So did Solche actually gave us a peek into the future of what would happen to Matthias when the Arvis heaven is ruined? :blobscream: Solche is genius indeed.
     
  6. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    No matter how many metaphors you guys find he still raped her. And who the fuck is Bastian. We're talking about this novel why do you pu keep on bringing up another dude to defend your rapist boy

    She was lime 15. I don't thinkvsje was being a gigchad Mastermind like all of you think. She was a scared girl who was raped


    Its not an opinion. He raped her. Stop bringing up bastardian or Basant or whatever the fuck his name was. You bringing him up just proves to me further this author dosent have issues writing about a rapist ML. Thus Matthias is a rapist too

    Bravo solche bravo. Your ability to show your Mls as a rapist and have people pulling shit out of there ass to defend him is truly an art. He is the Humbert humbert of our time. I kneel. A true genius
     
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  7. Navego88

    Navego88 Well-Known Member

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    Those aren't metaphors. Those are fallacies conjure up to try to make the story sound so meaningful and excusing rape. Even if ML got some bad to the deal, FL got it worse. Can you ppl even hear yourself? Your metaphors are shit and if this was a literature class you would all fail for coming up with fallacies. Go look up metaphorical fallacies. That's what you ppl are doing.
    1. Cars are mechanical horses.

    2. Horses eat oats.

    3. Therefore, cars eat oats.

    Compare that to
    1. Layla's name is Islamic, Mattias name is Christian

    2. Islamic and Christian are different culture

    3. Layla and Mattias different class!

    wtf are you ppl smoking?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2023
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  8. mireimisty

    mireimisty Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for bringing it up! From my personal point of view, Van J's art was the first trigger that made me re-think of the real story behind CEBYB. From the FansTL, I really had a bad experience reading Matthias character. But when I saw Van J's art, a question popped up in my mind "Is this really Matthias?". Because he didn't match the imagination when I read the FansTL. How come he looked so calm and gentle???

    That was when I started to find different analysis and stumbled upon the fact that I do need to try to read from Yonder :) And yes, Matthias in Yonder is not Matthias in FansTL.

    I couldn't wait to see the novel came to life!

    Which event do you want to see the most in the comic?


    I personally would like to see the 'Blue candy' event when Layla cried and got comforted by Matthias. The scene when they look at the mirror, dangg.. I wonder how it will look like? :bloblove: also, yesss. the deal! I really really want to see the deal scene came to life. I wanted to see Matthias expression when he got annoyed that Layla wore the same blouse all the time (and never wore the clothes he gave her, lol), and Layla's expression when she offered the deal. :blobhero:
     
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  9. Spidey1Fan

    Spidey1Fan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I saw that too on the manhwa. Matthias is attracted to her "free bird spirit". He's the canary locked in the cage seeking the.

    Yes, this makes perfect sense! The destruction of the Arivs Greenhouse in the story symbolizes a major shift from the traditional roles of the Duke and Duchess. This event brings chaos for all characters and represents the end of the 'old ways' and the start of something new. It parallels the upcoming war, which also brings significant changes. The burning and bombing of Sienne later in the story show the painful end of old political systems, family lines, and class divisions, making way for a new era focused on industry, technology, and individualism.

    Matthias demonstrates an ability to adapt to these changes, understanding the importance of business success over lineage, driving a car instead of a carriage, to the point of meeting lawyers to end his engagement with Claudine. Matthias was even prepared to break off the engagement, but it proved too late. However, Matthias remains willing to embrace the new changes. In contrast, Claudine struggles to accept the fast-paced nature of these developments, causing her pain and hatred towards Matthias.
     
  10. mireimisty

    mireimisty Well-Known Member

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    Dang! You are right @Spidey1Fan ! Thank you for bringing up another details about how CEBYB also covers the change in timeline.

    Yes, I totally agree with you! It is a similar constant theme in Bastian too. Just that, Bastian took the perspective of a commoner that made a place of himself between the nobles during the turmoil times.

    That also brought me to realise that Matthias actually never truly care about the ruined 'Arvis Greenhouse'. As the head of the family, of course he needed to take responsibility of the destroyed greenhouse. However, he actually didn't give it too much of an attention as much as Claudine nor Matthias mom.

    I do interpret it as, Matthias as a noble actually did not care as much about his nobility and his perfect 'duke' mask. He didn't mind to live nor choose a different life. Which shows in the numerous decisions he made in the novel like what you have described. (even taking Layla as wife).

    I personally love the timeline of 1900-1920s. Because, its a huge shifting time. Sometimes, I couldn't imagine the fact that kingdoms that have ruled for hundreds of years literally went down. It must be an interesting period of the world.
     
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  11. Spidey1Fan

    Spidey1Fan Well-Known Member

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    Which event do you want to see the most in the comic?

    I also look forward to most in the manhwa is the "mirror" scene in chs. 60-61 of Matthias treating Layla's wounds and Matthias giving her candy. Their eye glances in the miror holding each other was so emotionally intense! These chapters are a turning point in the dynamic between the two characters, laden with nuanced, intense emotions, and subtle details that deepen their connection. The experience of reading this pivotal moment was on Yonder. The FTL lacked the profound impact of the scene on the development of Layla and Matthias's relationship.

    This particular chapter is incredibly moving, showcasing Matthias's care for Layla in the aftermath of her injuries. It becomes a crucial moment in Layla's decision to agree to their deal. The scene highlights Matthias's reliability, a stark contrast to Layla's past experiences with her parents and Kyle. Layla's trust in Matthias is a significant factor in her decision, especially as she believes he will keep his promise to release Bill—a trust she struggles to extend to other methods.

    Despite the turmoil of emotions Layla experiences for Matthias, this chapter reveals a desire for comfort she has not felt elsewhere. The complexity of her emotions is evident in her internal conflict, marked by guilt, humiliation, and shame for wanting to be with a man engaged to another. This internal struggle shapes Layla's narration, creating a rich tapestry of conflicting emotions. It's worth exploring why Layla didn't choose to stay with Kyle while Bill was in jail, suggesting that Mrs. Etman may have represented a worse alternative than Matthias.

    Deep down, Layla seeks solace in Matthias's presence, despite the moral complications. The narrative hints at the dichotomy within Layla—her longing for comfort countered by the guilt and shame associated with desiring a relationship with a man engaged to another. These chapters provide a profound exploration of Layla's internal conflict and the intricate dynamics at play in her evolving relationship with Matthias.



    Layla has abandonment trauma which can be missed in the story as the narration is so messy (purposefully as the ML and FL emotions are chaos for each other) and the character’s turmoil is illustrated with metaphors. The reason Layla doesn’t look into the Duke’s eyes and rejects his kindness is not only because he’s engaged, their status gap but she’s fearful of him abandoning her like her Mom. I think one of the reasons Layla agreed to their deal because she knew the Duke wouldn’t break his promise and in a twisted way wanted his promise to be fulfilled. She also enjoyed the Duke’s comfort (emotional and physical) when he was tending her wounds after the car accident. Yes, twisted romance development.


    Ch. 60 - Before their agreement Layla and Matthias had a groundbreaking development in their relationship when he was tending her wounds after a car accident. During this time, Layla realized that Matthias is someone who keeps his promises, which is an important theme in the story. Matthias didn’t kill Phoebe and Matthias didn’t hurt her while treating her wounds. She removed her blouse so he could put ointment on her bruised back. “His lips and breath against her aching wounds felt as soft as a feather.” Bird metaphor again. Layla loves birds and felt loving comfort from his touch. Matthias thought, “You would have kept these bruises hidden and suffered all by yourself if I had let you.” Layla is compared to as a small, frightened animal. I don’t think Layla has ever received physical comfort before this scene as she is unaccustomed to comforting touch. Layla always keeps her deep feelings inside and forcing her smile to Bill and Kyle. While Matthias is holding Layla he delicately says her name “Layla” she then looks up at a mirror on the wall and sees his reflection. This was the first time Layla really looked into his eyes as she was avoiding eye contact for majority of the story so far and her gaze was first this time. Then the duke looks into the mirror and they lock eyes. They both see their reflection in the mirror and they gaze intensely into each other’s eyes. She gazes into his eyes for a long time. Matthias sees her eyes so pure and innocent and looks away. He realizes this was the first time he averted his eyes, not her, since he has known her for years. I initially missed this chapter during my first read, but after rereading it, I found it to be my favorite chapter in the book so far. Until this moment Matthias was the one being straightforward in his feelings is now avoiding her gaze. While Layla who used to avoid facing her feelings is now looking for his gaze. They both have unfamiliar feelings for one another. The intensity, realism and subtly was truly incredible.


    Ch. 61 Layla is doing her hair and remembers what Matthias said about her hair in the previous chapter, “It’s pretty. It’s like a bird’s wings.” The bird metaphors are so beautiful in this novel. Layla remembers he had kept his promise. This is an important theme in the novel.

    Then we go to Matthias’s memory of that night. When Matthias gave Layla some candy after she took her medicine, it triggered a strong emotional response. The candy reminded her of the blue candy her Mom gave her before leaving her forever. This is the first time in the book Layla had expressed such intense sadness about her Mom’s abandonment. Matthias doesn’t know about her abandonment and doesn’t know how to react to her crying as she has never cried like this before, but he was very happy to comfort her. He wanted her to stop crying. These tears were unlike before. This was so touching as when Matthias placed the candy in her mouth, she had unexpected tears and Matthias was confused why she was so upset about the candy as she was holding it in her mouth, neither spitting nor swallowing it. Matthias is not sure what to do and asks “Are you still in pain?” Layla nods. Matthias doesn’t know what to say and simply hugs her. This time Layla doesn’t push him away and let herself be put into his embrace. Matthias holds her for a long time as Layla is sobbing while eating the candy. Whenever Matthias reflects on this memory he has somber emotions sweep over him. He felt happy comforting her and wanted to get that feeling again. Very nuance characters.

    The FTL was so wrong on ch. 60-61. Matthias never took pleasure in witnessing Layla's bruises; rather, he desired to care for her. Layla's primary conflict with Matthias wasn't due to any form of mistreatment but rather his engagement. She grapples with a range of emotions—shame, sadness, anger, humiliation, and guilt—stemming from her romantic involvement with a man committed to another, not from experiencing abuse. Layla's struggle lies in the complexity of her feelings for Matthias. She harbors a desire to perceive him as a cruel figure to shield herself from potential hurt caused by his genuine kindness.

    Right!? I find that period of the world so fasinating, it was also very gruesome and tragic. A time of a huge shift in the world of nobility to individuality, blood lineage to technological innovation. Before WWI and WWII was a very strong emphasis on social hierarchy, a clear distinction between nobility and the common people. This was determined by one's birthright or class. After the wars the concept of individuality and personal agency became more central to society values. After the world wars led to the dismantle of colonial empires and emergence of new political realities. We see this illustrated in CEBIUB.

    I never viewed Matthias as a "spoiled" person rather he was a hard worker adapting to the change of his society. Matthias had no interest in vanity or materialism. Matthias was very displinced and he took responsibility for his expected duties.
     
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  12. spchntrt

    spchntrt Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your understanding! i just really can't get past the cheating act.
    and thanks for the recommendation! might read it next time :)
     
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  13. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    Its not an opinion. He raped her. Stop bringing up bastardian or Basant or whatever the fuck his name was. You bringing him up just proves to me further this author dosent have issues writing about a rapist ML. Thus Matthias is a rapist too
    It's schizophrenia at this point lmfao. Wasn't there a person who was harassing others for calling Matthias a rapist and then pulling metaphors out of there ass? They were on Instagram and this thread earlier

    Did they come back?
     
  14. Navego88

    Navego88 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same person using a new account or they're just ppl brainwashed by that person commenting on the Yonder comments "teaching" ppl how to read. They deleted there account bc no one agreed with them before but now they got some ppl brainwashed.
     
  15. mireimisty

    mireimisty Well-Known Member

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    Yes, totally understandable. I will really put a disclaimer that Bastian and Problematic Prince are all red-flag MLs. I personally don’t enjoy Problematic Prince, but the heavy politic in Bastian is great. But he really did bad to Odette. He was really cruel.

    Have a great reading!

    What a detailed and great explanation @Spidey1Fan . I really enjoyed your explanation of the complex feeling Layla harboured for Matthias. Its a strong attraction that of-course created a shameful feeling for her since she knew he was engaged.

    I do sometimes think if this thinking pattern was what Layla applied:
    "Because I could not love you, I would rather hate you."

    Would you agree with this statement? @Spidey1Fan

    Since hate and love are both strong feelings. In order to deny her strong feeling, she needed to hate him strongly too. And as you said, to hate him, she needs reasons to hate.

    Honestly, being in her position is really tough. I would be so damn conflicted too. I could totally understand why she wanted to move away from Arvis (before the deal) so that she could stop developing her feeling (hence shame for loving an engaged man). I am now on my second read at chapter 78 and learnt how being alone triggered a lot of Layla's childhood traumas and she hated to be alone so much. but what was interesting here was her psychological response to tackle the loneliness she had.

    It was written:
    "The hurt that she had caused Kyle, and the hurt that doing so had caused herself, both transformed into hatred. She knew it wasn't fair. She couldn't blame all her problems on the duke. Even so, she wanted to hate him. She enjoyed hating him.

    I wish he would hurry up and come back, she thought. So that I can just feel hatred towards him, and stop feeling so sad and lonely."

    Well, all I can say. I hope I can have an emotional garbage just like how Layla could shout at Matthias. lol. Joke aside, Layla as a character is indeed sad. She never chose what kind of family she would be born to right? Her childhood traumas were caused by irresponsible adults and unfortunately it shaped her responses to different conflicts and stresses when she turned into an adult.
     
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  16. SeethAndCope

    SeethAndCope Well-Known Member

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    You are so right. I am blown away by the mental gymnastics. It is neither that deep nor that complicated to see through this story.

    Lets say I don't care about their deal... girl, he threw her hat in the river for whatever petty reason (she almost drowned but of course it was her choice to go into the river I guess ) and he also poured ink on her clothes like hello? The list could go on about the millions of small aggressions. He completely disrespected her boundaries and crossed the lines... love is not like that.
    Also the book was almost completely over when she first came up with the idea of oh wait I actually like this guy.

    It's like the target audience is delusional mentally ill women because this story has no love in it at all. I feel like the author has never been in a normal/loving relationship. Maybe this is how she tries to heal from her own experiences. These fans would be great material for a psyc study and I'm serious not just being ironic.

    On a side note I am beyond devastated that this beautiful art is wasted on such crap. I need time to recover from this. The story could have been so much better too like nothing groundbreaking but instead of this literal master-sex slave bs it could have been about how they try to figure out how to make it work despite their different class and like Matthias learns that life is full of surprises and not everything happens the way we planned. Sorry, this is off-topic but I had to come up w an alternative story to cope with such a loss art-wise.
     
  17. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    No, no you see him throwing her hat in the river was actually a metaphor. According to ancient sumerian society they would dip there brodes into a river to show there undying love.

    Him throwing her hat which is connected to her heart is him saying that even a raging river can't sepearate them. It's quite romantic

    I mean just look at how matthias looks at her. That's the face of a man who has true love

    Ramsay_Bolton.jpg

    Solche you mad women you've done it again. Some peope just cant understand complex characters ugh
     
  18. moonlight07

    moonlight07 Well-Known Member

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    @mireimisty

    Personally, I want to say, I’m looking forward to see “their museum interaction” chapter. 28.

    Its so pure and beautifully described at the story.

    “The passage way was like heaven. It was decorated with silver-painted tree branches that had white feathers attached to them like leaves. Hanging from the branches were multi-colored crystal ornaments shaped like birds. The light reflecting off them gave the passageway a dream-like quality.”

    Very beautifully written. And their interaction also so pure Matthias’ grin when he saw Layla to running innocently to see the ornaments, Layla’s excitement when she saw these crystal birds. And how Matthias lifted her off the ground Layla to touch those birds.

    “She felt like a bird flying through the spring, sky able to wherever it wanted. It was strange, beautiful, dream-like feeling.”

    After setting back Layla down on the ground, they look at each other. I want to see their glances. I want to know which emotions they have had at that moment. Can’t wait☺️
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2023
  19. mireimisty

    mireimisty Well-Known Member

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    Oops, it seems that the forum has been quite heated last night ;) At least, am glad to see the forum are not dead hehe. Also, I would like to say I do respect people who have different opinions than me here. I think that's a beauty of a forum. To have a healthy discussion :blobpopcorn:

    Hi @moonlight07 oh yeap. I wonder how will they draw the museum right :aww: I felt the museum scene was the start of their 'crush' stage. It's like the feeling when you went to your first date maybe? :blobangel:

    Talking about that bird ornament, I was reading chap 80-82 last night when Matthias gave the crystal bird ornament to Layla.
    Sigh.. A lot of things happened of course, but I felt this is the first time you could see Layla explained her fear and shame in her narratives.

    A bit of a recap, Matthias told Layla that day "Wait for me in the cabin. If you're not there, I'll pay you a visit at Mr. Remmer's cottage. Your choice." And Layla had been feeling extremely lonely and got reminded of her childhood traumas, so she decided herself to meet him in his cabin so that she no longer feel lonely.

    Throughout, the whole ordeal, I could see that this deal was getting very difficult for both of them. I felt they knew, this gave them more pain than happiness.

    When she saw the gift she said "she had the urge to trust him, and yet she knew from experience that this would probably lead to more pain. She had then snapped the box shut, as if to cut off the hope she was feeling."

    What was her hope I wonder? Was she hoping that the duke could actually break his engagement because he truly love her?

    Its crazy to think how she had to handle the whole ordeal. She knew she loves the duke, but he was engaged. He never breaks his promises (thats why she trusted him), but then she doesn't know if the duke really consider her that important to the point of breaking his engagement. But then if she accepted her feeling for him, means she couldn't be an outstanding adult. sigh.. :blobsneeze:
     
  20. Spidey1Fan

    Spidey1Fan Well-Known Member

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    Right!? I find that period of the world so fasinating, it was also very gruesome and tragic. A time of a huge shift in the world of nobility to individuality, blood lineage to technological innovation. Before WWI and WWII was a very strong emphasis on social hierarchy, a clear distinction between nobility and the common people. This was determined by one's birthright or class. After the wars the concept of individuality and personal agency became more central to society values. After the world wars led to the dismantle of colonial empires and emergence of new political realities. We see this illustrated in CEBIUB.

    I never viewed Matthias as a "spoiled" person rather he was a hard worker adapting to the change of his society. Matthias had no interest in vanity or dominance. Matthias was very displinced and he took responsibility for his expected duties.


    I'm esctatic to finally engage in a book club discussion on this platform. Exploring the literary intricacies of this novel has been highly enjoyable for me. Reading what others thought about the nuances in the book has been like solving a complex puzzle together.

    When you think about their deal. It's sad because Matthias and Layla want more, realizing their desires are unattainable, brings them both sadness and inner turmoil.


    Ch. 92

    "He turned onto the forest path in order to shake off the faint irritation he was feeling, in order to rid himself of the thought of breaking off his engagemetn to be with Layla instead. Only when the gardener's cottage came into his view did he realize where he had been unwittingly headed."

    This quote happens after Claudine, Matthias's Mom and Grandma rub in Matthias's face about his responsibilities as a Duke to marry out of duty versus love.
     
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