Spoiler The Baby Concubine Wants to Live Quietly

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by Mikaa, Jan 29, 2021.

  1. schmawesome

    schmawesome Well-Known Member

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    Um. Please spoil. Please. Will give an arm and a leg for spoilers.
     
  2. V3Cubed

    V3Cubed Member

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    Ok I keep seeing the wrong stuff being said about the harem so let me clarify. The harem is consorted with both female and male concubines. The emperor is female. Reasons they say emperor is because emperor is the highest title, if empress then they aren’t the one with highest title. The female emperor has a mixed harem because they are using the harem as its power/authority. So they can use the power of the concubines’ family and themselves if needed. They were not shocked she was a female but the fact she was a child. A 8 year old child. The reverse harem is mostly focused of the male concubines but she does have female concubines they just aren’t mentioned much in the love aspect. In the manhwa it’s not translated properly but they should called consorts <title>, highnesses, or majesties. Like our MC is called consort Choi Bi. Each consort has a certain title like the story apothecary diaries where there are 5 or 4 main concubines called by their title like “consort of purity” and such.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2024
  3. Goldvyrn

    Goldvyrn New Member

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    I am currently the active translator for this series but even I am getting confused at times. I made all mentions of the female emperor to just be "empress" because otherwise it's confusing. I finally understand now why the manhwa went with "empress regnant" for her title due to the introduction of a male emperor character who is not the leader because it's presumably a matrilineal marriage. If my understanding of all this stuff is incorrect then I plan to edit my translation a bit.
     
  4. V3Cubed

    V3Cubed Member

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    So the term "empress regent" is typically used to describe a female ruler who is serving as regent in place of a monarch who is unable to rule, such as a minor or incapacitated ruler. If she is truly fully working and ruling her nation as an emperor status then she will be needing to be referred as an emperor even though she is a female. Empress regent just diminishes her controlling rule as explained above can be replaced once married or gives up to a minor male. For her husbands and wives they are simply put as concubines or consorts. They will never be able to be called her emperor as that’s a title above all. In the last chapters of the manhwa they were calling MC mama which was weird because she should’ve been called consort Cho Bi as that was her title till she became the daughter of the emperor then she would be a princess kang-hee(? Forgot her last part of the name but supposed to be peaceful and joy together) or Princess Sanya. Then Yehwa Aryun (the mother/ruler) should be called emperor. I really love royal/noble stuff so I know the meaning behind using what titles when referring to someone of that section.
    In Korean dynasties, the hierarchical structure and titles are different from that of Western nobility. Korean dynasties traditionally had a system of aristocratic titles and ranks known as the yangban system. The yangban were the noble class in Korean society, and they held significant political and social power.

    The main ranks within the yangban class included:

    1. Goryeo (Korean kingdom) - Goryeo officials were ranked according to the Five Ranks system, which included the royal family, senior officials, junior officials, military officials, and commoners.
    2. Joseon (Korean kingdom) - During the Joseon Dynasty, the yangban class was divided into different ranks based on the four occupational classes: scholar-officials (munban), military officials (muban), working class (nongban), and merchant class (sangmin).
    Within these ranks, there were various titles and positions that conferred different levels of prestige and authority. Some of the most common titles in Korean dynasties included:

    1. King/Queen (Wang/Hwanghu) - The monarch who ruled the kingdom.
    2. Crown Prince/Princess (Taeja/Taehu) - The heir to the throne.
    3. Royal Consort (Bin) - The spouse of the monarch.
    4. Minister (Daegam) - High-ranking official who served in the royal court.
    5. Governor (Doju) - Local official who administered a region or province.
    6. Scholar-official (Seonbi) - Educated elite who served in government positions.
    While the Korean aristocratic system had its own unique titles and ranks, it was not structured in the same way as the Western feudal system with titles like dukes and marquises. The Korean yangban system was based more on Confucian principles of meritocracy and social hierarchy, with individuals advancing through the ranks based on their education, service, and loyalty to the monarch.


    In Korean history, the title of "emperor" was not commonly used to refer to the ruler of the Korean kingdom or dynasty. Instead, the monarchs of Korea were typically referred to as kings or queens. The highest-ranking title for the ruler of Korea was "King" (Wang) or "Queen" (Hwanghu), depending on the gender of the monarch.

    The Korean monarchy was established in the early centuries of Korean history, and the rulers of the various Korean kingdoms and dynasties held the title of king or queen. The monarch was considered the highest authority in the kingdom and held significant political power. In the context of the Korean yangban system, the king or queen would be at the top of the social and political hierarchy, with ultimate authority over the government and society.

    While the title of "emperor" is commonly associated with rulers of larger and more expansive empires in other parts of the world, such as in China or Japan, the Korean monarchs were typically referred to as kings or queens even when they ruled over a unified Korean peninsula. The monarch's authority and position within the Korean hierarchical system were based on Confucian principles of authority, legitimacy, and benevolence, rather than on imperial titles or hierarchical structures found in other cultures.
     
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  5. Goldvyrn

    Goldvyrn New Member

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    I think 'regnant' is a different word from 'regent' and refers to reigning or ruling. So my guess is the official manhwa translation used that title to dispel confusion about an empress being the actual emperor of the country or not while still retaining the female title. The whole 'mama' thing also threw me for a loop because that's what the maids/servants are always trying to call Sanya but it sounds weird in english so I used "my lady" for situations like that in translation.
     
  6. layyu

    layyu Adopt me plsss

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    Hello, just addressing some tips regarding the translations as a former korean translator (probably someone recognizes me here? Idk) who can't understand most of korean words but was actively searching using namu, naver, Wikipedia, and more just to understand what they were saying and as someone who knows kind of well abt royal families and nobilities I also overfixated on researching about royal families, mostly European, since Princess Charlotte of Wales's birth.

    DISCLAIMER: I'm not a Korean, take this with a grain of salt but I know it'll kind of help you guys.

    Regent, regnant, dowager, and consort are terms to address different types of monarch and to specify what kind of monarch they are.

    To start, the "Emperor" here is an "Empress Regnant," because she's a ruling female emperor, and yes, they use the term "Emperor" in the Korean coz it's the highest rank.

    Empress Regent means you are an Empress by marriage who's ruling for someone else, either for your husband who got ill and can't perform his duties or for your son/grandson who's too young to rule, it's typically for the sons. Being an Empress Regent means that you're not really the ruler, you're just there as the officer in charge till the real person who's supposed to be in charge is there, capable of performing their duties.

    In the case of Empress Consort, you are the wife of the current Emperor, while in the Empress Dowager, you are the LIVING wife of the LATE Emperor.

    You can attach those three to different ranks like the King, Baron, Duke, any peerages. That's the basic explanation in European nobility/imperial titles. The Korean titlws don't differ much but there are differ
    ences.

    The Manhwa/KLN Imperial typical family consists of this:

    1. 황제, (hwangje): Refers to the Emperor. This refers to the monarch, the one ruling the throne. It doesn't matter if this is man or woman, but the hwangje is typically a man. The royal equivalent of this is 왕자 (Wangja or King) and sometimes, if they want to emphasize that this is a woman who's a regnant, they use 여왕 (yeowang, literal trans: female king, but translated as Queen but it's meaning is Queen Regnant).

    2. Please note that there are four types of consorts that the Emperor has in manhwas/KLN.
    - 황후, (hwanghu): This is the title of the MAIN consort of the Emperor. This is the one who is referred to as Empress. The royal equivalent is: 왕후 (wanghu, meaning: Queen). In the manhwa "Empress?Empress!" the Empress (hwanghu) shares the same power with the Emperor, but that's not always the case.

    - 황비, (hwangbi): This is the title of the OTHER consort of the Emperor. They are typically referred to as the First Imperial consort and such. They are legal consorts of the Emperor but the Empress enjoys the most right of being the Emperor's consort since she is typically the CONSORT. In this manhwa, iirc, there are no "Empress," only "Consorts." MC was a consort. Emperor's typically have consorts from different powerful noble families to maintain balance. In the same manhwa "Empress? Empress!" MC is referred to as Hwangbi hence in the translations, she's referred to as Empress Consort, in that manhwa, she doesn't have any power holding that position. I think she's also called "Queen" there, to refer that she's of lower rank than the Empress Regnant. In the manhwa (i forgot the title but the MC is pink hair with green eyes and her name is Cornelia/Carnelia and she's the wife of Caesar, male lead with black hair), Caesar/ML is the son of the Emperor but he's not the son of the Empress. Caesar's mother is called "Queen," despite being an Imperial Consort (Hwangbi). Royal equivalent is 왕비.

    - : This third title refers to someone being the Emperor's SIDE CHICK, they are the Emperor's Concubine. They are not legally his wives (like the Empress and the Imperial Consorts) but they're still treated as such. Typically, concubines are from lower nobility families, unlike the Empress and Imperial Consort. I forgot the korean for this.

    - I'm not familiar with the fourth one since I still haven't done any research about this and I'm too fixated at writing this to do some research but iirc, there is a title which refers to the women of the Imperial Harem. They are typically commoners or someone from a really low and weak noble family. They're the one the Emperor just fancied.

    I just wanna add the term: 황태후, (hwangtaehu). This title refers to the Empress Dowager, as I've mentioned earlier, this is how you address the LIVING MAIN wife of the DEAD Emperor. Meaning, you can only be referred to this if you are the "Empress," not the Consort, Concubine, and Harem, just the Empress. 태비 (taebi, Queen Dowager) is the royal equivalent of Empress Dowager.

    3. Let's go to the children of the Emperor:

    - 황태자, (hwangtaeja): This is the Crown Prince. This is typically the eldest son or most capable son of the Emperor who's the next Emperor if the Emperor abdicated or became dead. 황태자비, (hwangtaejabi) is the title of the MAIN wife of the Crown Prince. I still hadn't read something where the Crown Prince had a consort, concubine, or harem. You call 황태자비 as Crown Princess (no consort or anything). The royal equivalent of Crown Prince is 태자

    - 황자, (hwangja): This is the Prince, the son of the Emperor. Typically, there is no distinction between the Emperor's son regardless of who's the mother of these sons, but in the drama 슈룹 (English title: Under the Queen's Umbrella, I'm gonna refer to it as Shurub, since it is the romanization of the korean title), the Queen's son is referred to as the Grand Prince while the other sons were referred to as just Prince. 황자비, (hwangjabi) is the MAIN wife of the Prince.

    - 황녀, (hwangneo): This is the Princess, the daughter of the Emperor. I don't know if there is Grand Princess like there is a Grand Prince, and typically, the daughter gets married off so you don't get to call the Princess's husband anything, maybe just as 황녀의 남편 (trans: Princess's husband) but this is not a title.

    I wanna add here, too, that 황손 (hwangson) is a title given to the grandchildren of the Emperor. They're typically just referred to as Prince or Princess, depends on the gender. E.g. Anastasia in the "The Princess Lives in the Cookie House" or something (Anastasia is the MC who's the granddaughter of the current Emperor with the pink hair and green eyes who bakes). In the korean, she's refer to as Hwangson but in the translation, she's referred to as Princess.

    Next one would be abt how people address them. Like the "Mama..."

    Regarding the "Mama" (마마) part, this is used to address the Empress, Crown Princess, Princess Consort (?), Imperial Consort (Queen), and the Empress Dowager. Translated as "Your Highness." This is usually used at manhwa who's setting is royalty but korean royalty and not European royalty. Sometimes it is translated as Your Majesty if the one they're referring to is the Empress Dowager or the "Empress."

    You use the address "Jeonha" (전하) when you refer to the Princess (the daughter of the Emperor), Prince, Crown Prince, Imperial descendants, and sometimes even towards the Crown Princess. This applies to all, regardless of royal or imperial, but this is used to address the King and Queen, too. They also sometimes use this to address the "Empress." It is translated, too, as Your Highness, but sometimes, translators translate this as Your Majesty.

    While you use the address "Pyeha" (폐하) when you refer to the Emperor, the ruler. This is always translated to as Your Majesty.

    That's all~ I just wanna add, too, that I'm not that familiar with Manhwa Royalty hence I talked mostly about Manhwa Imperialism. You can mention me or quote this message if you have some clarifications or alms regarding this. Anw, I hope this helps.
     
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  7. its0k

    its0k Well-Known Member

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    There are no “side chicks” in a royal Asian harem.

    Technically only the Empress is a legal wife in the way we see it in the modern world. But nevertheless all women in the harem were considered legal partners of the monarch with their own ranking indicating their status. They weren’t secret lovers, side chicks or home wreckers, they were all an official part of a complicated structure called harem.
     
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  8. layyu

    layyu Adopt me plsss

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    Technically speaking, yes. I'm just trying to simplify it since the harem isn't really a known concept. Typically, the concubines and those who are part of the harem were people the Emperor fancied that doesn't have enough political, social, or financial power hence he makes them part of the harem, that's why I said they are his side chick.
     
  9. its0k

    its0k Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I don’t want to be a pain, but I need to to insist that regardless of their status before “marriage” and ranking in a harem concubines are basically official wives/partners of the harem owner.

    A side chick would be someone outside of a harem, usually a secret lover.

    There’s a lot of misconception regarding harems, especially after k-novels started mixing up western setting and eastern traditions. So readers tend to pity the first wife and perceive concubines as some immoral home wreckers, when in reality they all were the same thing, even the first legal wife - just a man’s pleasure toys, trophies and wombs of his children. The only difference between them is the amount of power they had over each other depending on their rank.
     
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  10. layyu

    layyu Adopt me plsss

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    Yeah, thank you~ I get it. Ppl will misunderstand that the harem are not official wives of the Emperor with my explanation. Thank you...
     
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