Spoiler I Am a Princess Responsible For Settling Circumstances

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by Shizun, Dec 12, 2018.

  1. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2022
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  2. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    Now that I'm able to finally post pictures, there's actually another Clifford x Octavia moment which is actually reaaaaally subtle and easy to miss, but I just found it so sweet~. I actually missed it myself, but I noticed after a Japanese tweet pointed it out.

    It involves the carriage scene with Clifford, Octavia, and Sil inside. Sil is sleeping so Octavia asks Clifford to close the curtain (in the light novel, it's actually Octavia tries to do this). Cue the convo where Clifford she doesn't need to go that far for Sill and she says that it's a pretty big deal to show you're sleeping face, and then she also sleeps. In the scene, where Clifford and Octavia are talking, the curtains behind the two are open. However, when Octavia is sleeping and wakes up, the curtains are closed. Clifford literally closed it for Octavia so she can sleep better! :bloblove: I just loved how subtle it was that not even the readers would know. It shows how Clifford cares for Octavia but in subtle ways which I think is sweeter and more meaningful than flashy sweetness. He didn't even close them when Sil was sleeping and was kinda reluctant to close it for him since he told Octavia she doesn't need to go that far for him.

    He couldn't close the curtains on Octavia's side because his arm was occupied by the sleeping princess and she'd wake up if he moved, obviously. :blob_plusone:



    I think that's how I would sum up Clifford and Octavia's current relationship. Rn, because the updates for both the manga and light novel are super slow, their relationship isn't exactly romantic yet, but they are somewhat closer than a normal master-servant since Octavia genuinely cares about Clifford and I think Clifford is touched and impressed by Octavia. There's a lot we don't know about Clifford's past including why he destroyed the Sazah leader (and the Esphere soldiers) and who his first master was. Don't get me wrong, the mystery is great but the updates are so slow that I'm praying and looking at Twitter every day for an update.

    Sometimes I like to imagine that Clifford unknowingly has a crush on her :blobpeek:
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022
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  3. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    So a little about Clifford's adopted family and home life. It's not much but it does form a picture.

    Regarding the Earl of Alderton, Clifford's foster father, all is known about him is that he adopted Clifford (I think he was impressed by his fighting skills?) and wanted him to become a candidate for Octavia's escort knight (I assume because he knew that Clifford was strong he was hoping his strength could win him the role of being Octavia's escort knight and earn the prestige since the Aldertons are affiliated with the historical rebellion against the royal family).

    The Earl of Alderton only has three daughters. To Clifford, it's one older sister and two young sisters. In the light novel, after Clifford chooses and impresses Octavia and her maids with the black dress he chose for the ball, Matilda, one of Octavia's maids, asked if he was good at choosing dresses because he had three sisters. Clifford replies that his older sister and two young sisters actually hate him so they don't actually let him choose their dresses. :blobnobully: He was hoping to meet Octavia's expectations (based on the black fan she carries, that is).

    So far, both in the light novel and manga, there's nothing about the foster mother, the wife of Earl of Alderton. I guess, she might be dead, or she doesn't play a big role. I mean, Clifford mentions a bit about his foster sisters, but nothing about his foster mother.
     
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  4. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    Here's a bit more detail about the carriage scene, light novel version.

    So the conversation with Sil and Octavia and Clifford is essentially the same as the one in the manga, but the light novel does show that Clifford doesn't really care about Sil. When Sil asks if Clifford was the hooded figure who saved him many years ago, Clifford says no, Sil is kinda sad, and Clifford apologizes with coldness (in the manga, Clifford's facial expression actually kinda expresses this since he apologizes with an indifferent look).

    When Sil is asleep, Clifford "heartless[ly]" asks Octavia if he should wake him up. Like, boi really doesn't care about him. But tbh, neither do I since, because of him, Clifford is imprisoned. :blobcat_hyper:

    As Sil naps,

    C: "Would you like me to wake him up?"
    O: "Let him sleep. Lord Sil is tired too."
    C: "... To your will" (or "... For your sake" depending on where you're reading from, but essentially means that Clifford will comply for Octavia) :blob_plusone:

    Octavia then stands up and tries to close the curtain near Sil.

    C: "... You don't have to do this."

    Clifford also already stood up and, because he's tall, his shadow kinda covers her.

    O: "Sleeping ... It's courageous for people to see their sleeping faces, Clifford. The smaller the number, the better. - I wonder if you could move Sil's head."

    So she tells Clifford to lower the curtain for Sil.

    C: "I agree if it means that you will be in an irresistible and defenseless state." (I'm assuming Clifford states this)

    After closing the curtain.

    O: "I think it also means that Sil is forgiving us." (I guess because he's showing them his defenseless, sleeping face)

    She looks at Clifford.

    O: "... Are you sure it really isn't you?" (about saving Sil years ago)
    C: (smiles) "--Does Your Highness doubt me?"
    O: "I don't think there are people who look like you."
    C: "Lord Burks didn't seem to judge him by his facial shape. If you're dressed up, there will be many people who look like me. It's been a long time."
    O: "Then I will ask again. Isn't you the one who helped Sill four years ago?"

    Octavia wonders if Clifford will give the same answer to her as he did to Sil because a "Jyuu" doesn't lie to his master (but is there a loophole? :hmm:). The carriage shakes and the two of them were still standing up in the carriage. Octavia nearly loses her balance but Clifford supports her body. At the same time, he (easily? lightly? again, depends on where you're reading from) responds.

    C: "--No. It's not me. Your Highness."
    O: "... Got it."
    C: "Please give me your hand. It is dangerous to stand. Please sit down." ( :bloblove: )

    They both sat down together. A few minutes later, Octavia also naps. Because her head unconsciously lays on Clifford's arm, I think that is why she says in the narration that "one side is warm", because of his body temperature :blobmelt: . She thought she might have some sweet dreams but actually has a nightmare related to her death and transmigration. She usually calls that memory "fucking abominable memories" in the light novel. She wants to wake up because it's a painful dream, but then she feels a big hand on her head which makes her feel easy. :blobmelt::blobmelt::blobmelt:

    In her inner-narration:
    Ah ... I wonder if this is also a dream. Someone is stroking my head as if someone's calming me down. Yes. After all, this is a dream. Because in this world, such a person ... Alex is far away ... The feeling of the hands is also different. If it's a dream ... I'll try to get along and sneak up. (?) As if confused, the hand that was stroking me stopped moving. It made me sad. But this is a dream that suits me. Someone didn't disappear. They're a little clumsy, and they keep stroking me with unfamiliar hands. I'm glad.

    :bloblove:

    She then has a dream about her mom in her past life.

    C: "Your Highness."
    O: (her inner thoughts) No. I still don't want to wake up from this dream. It's a good dream, but when I wake up, I will forget it.
    C: "Your Highness. We're about to arrive. Please get up."
    O: (her inner thoughts) The beautiful voice that I've become accustomed to hearing hits my ears.
    …… Your Highness? Your Highness is me, I am Octavia, and this voice is ...


    She lightly wakes up and sees Clifford.

    C: "I'm sorry I'm late to wake you up."
    O: "... It's my fault that I fell asleep." With a fluffy mood, I answer with Clifford's shoulder as a pillow.
    C: "--Did you have a good rest?" I guess Clifford in the dream may reflect my desires ……. Somehow, it looks as if he was concerned if I slept properly.
    O: "Yes ... I had a good dream."

    She starts to realize:
    I'm leaning on Clifford's shoulder- Maybe it's a reality? My right hand wasn't a fan- Isn't Clifford holding the left sleeve of his uniform as if he was stubbornly holding it away? (yeah, I have no idea what the last statement means. :sweating_profusely:)

    She finally completely wakes up and kinda panicking on the inside. Sil is still asleep and she notices that the curtain beside Clifford was newly lowered. :blob_plusone:

    One of her inner thoughts which isn't in the manga is:
    Clifford's left shoulder was provided as my pillow while I was sleeping, and my left arm also grabbed him by his sleeve and so he was probably stuck ...! Although he said, "I don't have to do something like this," he took the trouble to take it down with his free hand. (That's your man, right there, gurl :blobpopcorn::blobsmilehappyeyes:)

    O: "... Thank you. I'm sorry for the inconvenience." I want to enter if there is a hole.
    C: "Your Highness doesn't need to be bothered by it."
    O: "But it would have been a hindrance."

    While saying that, I was struck by intense anxiety. The fact that I borrowed Clifford's shoulders means that I should have gone to the window side after I fell asleep, but I can imagine that my head went to Clifford's side. However, why was I holding his sleeve ...? I'm sure my sleep was bad! What is that? While sleeping, I might be doing something else ……! This must be confirmed!

    O: "--I wonder if I have exposed anything ugly?" For example, talking while asleep! Kicking or punching!
    C: “…………”
    O: He's quiet!
    C: (after he throws a glance at her right hand (I assume it's her right hand he looks at since the Japanese word "jibun" is used and that's one of the pronouns for "I") for a moment) "--No, nothing. Your Highness just fell asleep."
    O: "... then it's good". I believe you, Clifford!

     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
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  5. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    Also, I’ve been seeing some theories going around that Clifford might be future Sil. I’m gonna debunk that. First, Clifford has (and has been described as having) blackhair and dark blue eyes, whereas Sil has more bluish hair and amber eyes. They look black because of the uncolored pages of the manga, and the cover page of vol. 1 makes Sill’s hair look like a shade of black. This is the image that properly shows his color palette.



    BUT, I do think there might be a possible past relation between them since Sil doesn’t know a thing about his past and thinks it was Clifford who saved him a long time ago. He denies and can’t lie (his words) to his master, Octavia, so either he’s telling the truth or there’s a loophole.

    So far, though, Clifford doesn’t seem to like Sil. He’s not openly rude to him (he’s not in a position to be), but he could care less about him. In the carriage scene, Octavia asks Clifford to close the curtain for him, but he replies she doesn’t need to go that far for him. In a fighting scene against the enemies, Clifford is annoyed that Octavia doesn’t want him to hurt Sill, even though Sill’s trying to hurt her. After she gets hurt, he wonders why Sil is more important to her that she’d injure herself. Basically, he cares more about Octavia than Sil. He was more than ready to make Sil immobile by injuring his knee. If Clifford was future Sil, why would he want to hurt/kill himself? Clifford hasn’t shown any form of suicidal tendencies in manga or the light novel.

    The society set in the series is more superstitious. The magic isn't really open, as:
    1) The most magic we've seen is the hand symbol on Octavia's hand that represents Clifford's allegiance and obedience to her and her alone, which also mostly serves as a danger detector. Clifford himself is from a nearly-extinct clan.
    2) Octavia's older brother Y-so-Celius is brainwashed (likely by the "god" that threw Octavia into that world in the first place, but that's my assumption)
    3) Octavia's younger brother, Alexis, kinda feels the presence of the sky, and there is a probability that he is more related to the king who overthrew and killed his Queen sister since he had a dream about it. In a side story, Clifford kinda assumes through questioning Guy, the knight who is close to Alexis, that Alexis has something up with him. Guy questions himself "At that time, what a ridiculous delusion came to my mind because His Highness Alexis did something to me - something unexplainable that only exists in the mythical world".
    But this kinda magic, at least the ones affecting the brothers, is related to their "god". The magic isn't like changing appearances and stuffy. So if someone thinks that Clifford simply changed his appearance - no.

    Clifford isn't Sil.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
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  6. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    I swear Clifford looks so much older in white. I mean, he looks more daddy than ever.:blobnosebleed: In black, he looks younger, as if he's still in the dating phase. blobmelt_thumbs But, in white, he looks like he's married Octavia and already had a couple of kids with her XDDDDD
    And anyone who dares to hurt his wife and kids, he'll easily cut them. You hurt his kids, cut! :blobhero: You insult his wife, cut! :blobhero: He also looks like the type who looks after his kids quietly as they play around and watch for any danger nearby. :blobspearpeek: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
    He's protective daddy XDDDDD <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
    Ahhhhhh, I want an update on this series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's already wearing white! Just find priest! When will the lover route begin!?!!??!?!



    I want to see him in Zhongli's suit. :blobcatblush::blobcatblush::blobcatblush::blobcatblush:
     
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  7. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    To me, Clifford is an ideal male lead (sorry, Luka Crosszeria, but you'll always be my first love), mostly because he's not a prince, king or CEO. He's not bossy, arrogant, or stupid. I've seen some stories where the knight (even as a 2nd/3rd ml) is hotheaded, stupid, and arrogant. He’s 1) he's not arrogant to Octavia or to other people 2) he's arrogant to his enemies mostly in a fight (and that one time with Alex but Clifford handled it quite well). Clifford is strong and, in Octavia's words, a "cheat character", so it makes sense why he’s a little excited about a fight, so he does show a bit of arrogance or mockery, but it’s pretty temporary since he does fight seriously (but I think he knows he'll win). Clifford is from a commoner background with his fighting strength as his special ability. He's in a subservient position to Octavia, the FL, and it's just refreshing as hell. I mean, Clifford looks like the cold, brooding, and aloof ml, and he is one, BUT he is not rude, which is what most cold MLs are. And not just to Octavia, he is also polite to others. For example, one of Octavia's maids, as her maids are happy that Octavia can rely on Clifford, gave Clifford a white suit at the ball and pushed him out to get changed. Even though he simply says that he's a knight escort so it's unneeded, he doesn't make a fuss or get angry. We don't see many interactions with him and other people yet because of the slow updates.

    Guy, a fellow knight who knows about Clifford's identity as Ongarne's messenger, was scared of him during the side story. But Clifford was mostly quiet and simply asked if he was Guy Perez and if he noticed something wrong with Alexis. Guy wondered how Clifford knew him and wondered if it also has something to do with the battlefield when he first met him as Ongarne's messenger since their eyes did meet. The only thing Clifford did was initially glare at him as soon as he entered the room where Clifford and Octavia were practicing dancing for the ball. But that wasn't because Clifford was glaring at him because of who he was, but it was because Clifford's vigilance sensed someone coming and worried if it was hostile to the princess, that's why he immediately stood in front of Octavia, ready to fight if needed. He immediately calmed down and when Octavia asked Clifford if he was carrying dangerous weapons (?) since he didn't have his identity plaque on him. He just looked at him and said he didn't, since Clifford has a habit of first seeing people carrying any weapons on their person when he meets them.

    In chapter 2.3, the only interaction he had with Alexis is when he did show some mockery. At first, he was polite since Alexis was a prince and he was a knight. But when Alexis says that he needs to step down as Octavia’s knight, Clifford smirks, understanding why Octavia’s knights never stayed long. When Alex says again that he shouldn’t near his sister, he just replies “So what?” and says only Octavia can command me. When Alex threatens to kill him if he betrays his sister, Clifford replies with a smirk “If you can”. I feel like he only acted this way is because Alexis was rude to him first, but Clifford, albeit straightforward, was still polite as a knight. He puts Octavia above all since she’s his master, and he’s already stated and shown that he won’t do anything without her permission. (I mean he does do things on his own, like question Guy, but I feel like he wait for her permission when it comes to other nobles and royalty, as a way to assert Octavia is his only master and no one else.)

    Overall, he’s cool and kind. It's nice to see a story about a princess X commoner knight. I need to read some of those.

    I'm waiting for the moment when Clifford's past is revealed and when he finds out that Octavia thinks that he's gay, and especially when she thought that her younger brother, Alexis, and him would be a couple (spoiler alert: Alexis hates him and I'm pretty sure Clifford could care less about him). I would love to see Clifford's reaction to that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2022
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  8. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    There is this one-shot side story manga by the artist. Unfortunately, I don't have it and the one online is watermarked. If anyone has this or could find this un-watermarked, I'd greatly appreciate it. It's not in the manga since, from what I've interpreted, the artist was having a "buy vol 1 and 2 or 3, and this 4p leaflet for free" thing. You can only unlock it through a purchase.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Two things that I can gather (from increasing the brightness) is
    1) Chibi Clifford is so cute
    2) Octavia says/asks something, Clifford is just standing there with a questioning look (also very cute).

    But I need detailsssssssssss. And I can't get them because the watermark is in the wwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy.
     
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  9. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    Oh, there's also fanart and fanfic of this series (I assure you, it's good). :aww:
    It's how I get my dose of Clifford :blobnosebleed: when the official artist and the original author are both too slow. That and re-reading (iregretnothing) :blob_coffee:

    On the bright side, I've heard one of their manga is complete, so hopefully, they'll focus more on this series.
     
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  10. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    Sometimes, I like to think Clifford is subconsciously flirting with Octavia:

    1) He put flowers in her hair twice (the first time was in a flower garden and he initiated it. She didn't even ask him, and there's this commoner tradition where the guy puts flowers in his lover's hair) :blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed:
    2) When Octavia had a nightmare in the carriage, he pat pat her head :bloblove:
    3) When she was crying in his arms, he pat pat her head again :bloblove:
    4) He chose her dress for the ball ~~~. :blobtaco:
    5) He compliments her dress, saying it was made for her when she was just looking at the flowers, and then proceeds to put one in her hair :blobsmilehappyeyes::blobsmilehappyeyes::blobsmilehappyeyes::blobsmilehappyeyes:
    6) In a side story, he offers her a flower in the flower garden as he's kneeling looking up with a smile at her. :blobnosebleed::bloblove::justabotheart: (if only that flower was a ring)
    7) He initiated becoming her "Jyuu" (I know he said that he thought she already knew he was from the "Jyuu" clan, but like he also knew that initially, she didn't know his name. So I know that he knew that she didn't, and kinda worked her way around her words, but he does tell her that she's the lord he wanted. :blob_blush:)
    8) He tells her to use him well. AHHHHHH I CANTTTTT:blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed:
    9) Those hand kisses! Lots and lots of hand kisses! I know he's a knight, but come on! That skinship!!! :blobnosebleed:
    10) Him sitting so close beside her in the carriage. (Idc if it's so that ppl don't get the wrong idea about her and Sil, I think my boi did it to keep Sil away from his waifu, I mean he was more than ready to kill him when he was trying to hurt her).
    11) Closing the curtains for her naptime as his arm acted as her pillow~~~~ While not giving a damn about Sil's comfort XD
    12) When Derek, her former bully, come over at the ball, Clifford stands in front of her to protecc her (cuz he had a sword and Clifford was like imma not let u near her no matter who u r cuz u could dangerous. I feel like he trying to keep the flies away from Octavia, especially both Sil and Derek are Douche's ppl. I wonder how'd he react if he knew that Derek used to bully her)
    13) He still listen to waifu a 100% :bloblove::bloblove::bloblove:
    14) He's always telling her if that's what you wish, or that's what you want me to do.
    15) After her dance with Derek, she calls Clifford (because he has her fan), he comes over to give her the fan and kneels as he gives it:blobsmilehappyeyes: It's kinda flashy and she whispers to him that he's exaggerating the way he's giving back her fan. He replies that he can't handle her fan carelessly and he wants the public to know that he's in her service:blobtaco::blob_blush::bloblove: Her maiden heart is moved (mine too) and she tells him it's as if he's one of her own, and he's just smilingly (with flowers everywhere in the background lol) says yes, you're right :blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed: (Keep in mind this happened just after her dance with Derek ended and the others were saying it was a lovely dance, and he kinda had this look when he saw the two dance. Were u jelly, Clifford?)
    This is essentially chapter 10. Luckily, it's already translated. I put the raw version because the image is clear.
    He protecc, he attacc, but than that he wanted to dance (withher ( ✧≖ ͜ʖ≖) Derek, go away)
    [​IMG]
    https://i0.wp.com/twe.mangapro.top/...---id------c---10.2---c------t---2---t---.jpg
    16) When a line of guys come to greet Octavia at the ball, as she hopes one of them asks her to dance with him, they come to greet (kinda confidently?) but then leave (all scared). Behind her is Clifford. (Clifford, are you scaring the competitors away from your designated role of being her hubby XD ) ::blobcatsmile::
    17) When they're fighting against the enemies, he had to hold her while fighting them (SKINSHIP!!!!) :blob_pompom::blob_pompom::blob_pompom:
    18) When Octavia was worried about Clifford's old scars, he tells she CAN CHECK THEM HERSELF (I SWEAR HE FLIRTIN) and tilts his neck to LET HER SEE MORE (MORE OF WHAT!?!?!?!? THAT NECK!!! I SWEAR THIS GUY MADE ME DEVELOP A NECK FETISH!!!! HELP ME! jknotjk. It honestly is quite a scene for me. If she looked at his scars, obviously she'd get to see more of his neck.):blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed:
    This image is just too good. :blobnosebleed: He protecc, he attac, he a snacc and he got that nacc :blob_blush:
    [​IMG]
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex-AmASUYAIra5G.jpg:small
    19) Princess carry! Twice! And she never asked! He initiated it because it was a better choice than letting her dress get soiled or letting her slip (The circumstantial excuses to pick her up XD):blobmelt::blobmelt::blobmelt::blobmelt::blobmelt:
    20) Telling her that he'll bring her victory when he was forced to fight all of Douche's goons. (Ah, that scene! :blobmelon: Isn't it like those stories where the knight wins for his princess/lady in tournaments).
    21) He teases her? I'm not sure if he does tease her. I don't think he does. I mean, to me, despite Clifford being pretty subservient, he does have a personality (just not open). After he smilingly says yes to her saying it's as if he's one of her own at the ball, she blushes like crazy (asdidIsorrynotsorry) and thinks he's teasing her (not sure since it is from her perspective). Before this, at the beginning of the manga, when Alexis wants to know Clifford's name but Octavia didn't know it (cuz she thought he'd quit), Clifford just smirks because he knows she doesn't know. But I wouldn't say that that's him teasing her.
    22) That time when he told Nothin' goon that he's the most preferred candidate to be Octavia's knight (I see what u did there, Clifford ┬┴┬┴┤ ͜ʖ ͡°) ├┬┴┬┴ )
    23) His hand... on her waist/back/stomach/head.... I mean, seriously, he even has his hand on her back on the vol 3 cover page. I know that's for aesthetic reasons and the rest is basically him pulling her away from danger.... but like....dude:blobxd: Lemme dream.:blobpopcorn:
    24) Did you notice how he fights against the enemies and Sil and defeat them WHILE carrying Octavia with one arm!? This man can multitask! (likelikeimagineifhehaskidsthenhewouldbeholdingonebabyonearmwhiledoingpaperworkwiththeotherhandwhilealsoaskingOctaviahowherdaywasomgyesssss!)

    There's also a scene where some guy at the ball asked Clifford for a dance but he refuses. Octavia tells him to go have fun if he wants and tells him what if she orders him to go and dance with the others. He hesitantly tells her he'll listen, but hopes she never orders him something like that. XD
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
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  11. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    So I'd like to give some of my predictions of the series since so far the manga updates are centered around Sil and I don't care about knowing the details about him. I'm waiting for the updates on Clifford. Vol 4 is over (just one part of chapter 21 is left I think). Clifford, where are you?

    The artist posted additional illustrations.


    Before that, in the first pic, Clifford looks so good!!!! The way Octavia is behind him and sticking her tongue out at Rust shows her kinda letting her guard down since she's doing kind of "un-princess-y" thing near Clifford. Granted, she's behind him, but I'm pretty sure our boy knows. Someone pointed out that Clifford's sword is completely unsheathed. He ready to kill anyone who hurt his wife Octavia. I hope he hits Douche with that.

    But the second pic shows Octavia with her brothers and Derek (when he was a bully to her) in their childhood. So the older brother Y-so-Celius was unbrainwashed at this time and loved his sister, until he grew up and had Sil and just forgot the memories. But the two are equally in the vol 1 cover as Clifford and Octavia. We know that Clifford and Octavia are the main couple, so it seems like Y-so-Celius and Window Sil are like the side couple. The artist so far hasn't antagonized Y-so-Celius, so I feel like they'll be kind of a redemption arc for him, especially when he gets his memory back. So Y-so-Celius is not the bad guy or the minor bad guy.

    I mean, I get it, the guy is brainwashed, but he treats her like trash and so does his ppl. I'm not gonna forgive him for trying to control her movement and planting his own guy as her escort knight (and potentially becoming her lover since he wants her kid as his heir I think, I'm not sure about this part, may need to re-read). And that stunt he pulled with Clifford. Like it was one of your guys who sabotaged your boyfriend's carriage, why do you need to imprison Clifford? I want no redemption for him by Octavia, but she doesn't even hate himmmmmm!!!! Octavia, whyyyy!?!?!?!

    Alex is fine. I like him since he whole-heartedly does love his sister since she's the only one who treated him with kindness (since he was a product of S.A. that happened to the king, so he's mostly treated indifferently by the king, and the male queen and Y-so-Celius have had no interactions with him and Y-so-Celius doesn't even see him as a threat to the throne.) But I hope that Alex is not done dirty in the end, since I fear that Alex is possibly a reincarnation of the king that killed his sister since, 1) he feels the sky god in the sky room (he felt uncomfortable through), and 2) he has recurring nightmares about the past king Us killing his sister Queen Idearia which made Alexis fear for his sister, Octavia, and I think help her with the throne if she wants. Like, assuming that the Sky God is the ultimate villain, Alex is doing a good job so far to resist the brainwashing that his older brother has succumbed to. But, what if, the brainwashing happens and he tries to kill Octavia thus repeating history. He and Octavia have been through enough.

    As for Derek. I have no idea who, but I think someone said that Derek used to bully Octavia because Octavia bullied him first. That's not true. It was because his dad, who is Octavia's unrelated uncle, praised her more and gave her more attention, so he was jelly and physically bullied her (since she got a scrapped knee because of him), and it was her older brother at the time who would fight Derek for hurting his sister. Also, look at Octavia. Does she look like someone who can bully others? She can be smart but she isn't cunning, she has a pure heart that she has no ill will towards anyone especially her older brother or even Derek (she says she has a grudge but, although I would say she kind of keeps him at arm's length, she isn't rude. But I would say that politeness is just obligatory politeness between the nobles), and even as a child, she was smaller than Derek. How could she have bullied him?

    I'm sure that Derek's also the second ml (but I'm hoping I'm wrong. We don't need a 2ML. Clifford is perfection itself). Sil does think that maybe Derek liked Octavia since he was a kid, but I honestly hope that's not the case. I hate guys who bully others because they love them. Get out with that abusive love. I don't care if he was a kid at the time. The fact that he was a kid and bullying her like that is scarier. I don't know how he grew up smart(er than her older brother), but I give all credit to his dad's way of raising him. Clifford is the standard.

    Also, Octavia is sitting on the throne in the vol.4 cover. Not sure why, since vol 4 isn't about wanting the throne but fighting against the enemies to rescue Sil. I wonder if it alludes to possibly her overcoming every obstacle and becoming a queen in the end. In my opinion, Octavia (after some character development) or Alex would make a good ruler. Octavia is smart and can think on her feet depending on the circumstances, but I think she needs some experience since she's too pure. Alex isn't stubborn (unless it involves his sister), he treats everyone equally (and by that I mean he isn't misogynistic nor discriminatory to the minor straight guys and the commoners), and he's straight or asexual (he has an aversion to gay men who are in love with him since they tried to force themselves on him since he was a kid) so I feel like he would do a good job in protecting the people, especially minorities, and also bring a change in the kingdom's effed up norms. I don't want to see Y-so-Celius become king AT ALL.

    Of course, I think the throne may also allude to Idearia in a way since volume 4 takes place entirely in the sky room which is actually the former Queen Idearia's tomb. She has the same hair color as Octavia (but Idearia has green eyes), had a Jyuu by her side, and had a supportive brother. It's a shame that vol 4 didn't have more of Idearia, but I think it may be more of introducing Idearia. She's likely to become a major character in future volumes (assuming when those volumes will come out TxT).
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2022
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  12. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    I have another theory that Clifford and Octavia may also be reincarnated OR are parallels to the former Queen Idearia and her 'Jyuu'. Please note that, because of translation issues, much of this is based on the pictures from the manga.

    For Octavia, her parallel is the former queen who was killed by her brother. This is inferred from the parallel of Alex (as the possible reincarnation of the king who killed the queen) and Octavia WITH the king and queen who were siblings as well. Another inference is the flower in the queen's hair in chapter 17.1. She has the Lishran flower. This is the same flower Octavia has put in her hair twice (and by Clifford, might I add).

    The Lishran flower in the former queen's hair in Alex's nightmare
    [​IMG]
    (https://imgur.com/Isq0g1u)


    Clifford puts the Lishran flowers in Octavia's hair at the palace's garden.
    [​IMG]
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETi8uiVUYAISaOW.jpg

    At the ball, Clifford puts the Lishran flowers in Octavia's hair
    [​IMG]

    (https://imgur.com/YSE8qur)


    As for Clifford, Alex's nightmare had some interesting insight. In his nightmare, there's a hooded figure behind the former queen. I wonder why. The first time I saw it, my brain instantly went to the images when Octavia was explaining about the "Jyuu" clan who were in hoods. Clifford has been in a hood about twice in the manga (EDIT: it's confirmed to us readers in the novel that Clifford was the hooded man who save Sil). However, the enemy jyuus were also in hoods in vol. 4, so it could just be a random guy. But I wonder why the hooded guy was behind the queen when talking to her brother, instead of an unhooded attendee or no one at all. This might mean that the hooded guy was close enough to the queen, kind of like an escort knight.

    The second I see the hooded figure is when Octavia is with Clifford, Rust and Derek and was thinking about the former queen (she has a name but I can't remember it). When she was, a hooded guy was kissing the hand of the queen's silhouette. Obviously, Octavia wouldn't have known about him since she didn't even know that the queen herself existed. I feel like that's something for us, buuutttt I could just be overanalyzing this. This theory, though, may also explain why Clifford chose Octavia as his lord since we aren't really sure why he did and he himself doesn't even know. His reasons are just assumptions for now.

    In Alex's nightmare, the hooded figure behind the queen as she talks to her brother aka the king who kills her.
    [​IMG]
    (https://imgur.com/ylIxKCq)

    Side profile of a hooded figure kissing the former queen's hand in Octavia's inner thoughts.
    [​IMG]

    (https://imgur.com/lx2ajIC)

    Octavia's explanation of the "Jyuu" clan

    [​IMG]
    https://kumacdn.com/images/i/im-an-...olving-things/chapter-2-1/1-61ab354d88983.jpg

    Rust talking about a "combat tribe" who are the "Jyuu" clan since they're a warrior clan.
    [​IMG]
    (
    https://imgur.com/RI3xTtD)


    Sil's talking about a hooded figure who saved and believed that it was Clifford (but Clifford denies it so it is unconfirmed but the sword in this image and the image below kind of looks the same).
    [​IMG]
    (https://imgur.com/yICw6rP)

    Clifford's reminiscence of himself
    [​IMG]
    (https://imgur.com/xLAcEtN)


    However, the enemies also have hoods on.

    [​IMG]
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FH7OEBTaAAE5-ma?format=jpg&name=large

    But as I was analyzing I realized something amazing. You see, the "Jyuu" clan has an insignia on the top of their hoods (basically where their foreheads are supposed to be). However, the hooded enemies don't have that. YET, in the front profile of the hooded guy in Alex's nightmare, there seems to be an insignia on the hood!

    However, the enemies that kidnapped Sil and attacked Octavia and Clifford are also part of the "Jyuu" clan, since Rust, in 16.2 says ["ju" ga barks wo neratsu te iru toiu koto] which translates to [That "obey" is aimed at Burkes.]. But that's also kind of strange because the 'Jyuu' clan is near to extinction so they're pretty rare. Even Octavia herself was surprised when Rust mentioned the "Obedience" (jyuu) capturing Sill, and notes Clifford, as a jyuu warrior, as being part of an "Endangered species" (絶滅 危惧種 zetsumetsukigushu), thus the jyuu clan being endangered and rare.

    Either they went into hiding or something else is up or translation is being an obstacle in trying to know that.


    EDIT:
    I accidentally deleted one of my previous posts, so I’ll just add it here.


    To summarise, what I posted was that there was another image of the same former Queen and the hooded figure in the last chapter of volume 4, in which the hooded figure is kneeling down on one knee and kissing the former Queen's hand (much like what Clifford does with Octavia). It says “My Lord” in quotes. The translation, from the novel, translates 『我が「主」』 to “Lord” with its romanization being Waga “shu”. (Quick note: I’ve realized that quotations marks make a difference since the manga was translating the word 主 as “nushi” or “omo”, though apparently, both words mean “Lord”, so the translation is accurate enough. The word “shu” implies the shuu-jyuu (master-subordinate) relationship between the former Queen and the hooded figure, which reflects the shuu-jyuu (master-subordinate) relationship between Octavia and Clifford. This again supports the theory that maybe Octavia and Clifford are reincarnations or reflections of the former Queen and the hooded figure since the former pair parallels them.

    The novel uses quotations marks also suggests that the memory and visual is from the hooded figure, since Sill was injected by the leader of the enemies that Clifford battled earlier, and he’s seeing this. Additionally, his words in the image are “...... Do I know? No, I don't know.” But that’s just a theory. I feel like we’ll get to know more about the hooded guy and the former Queen since they’re both erased from Esphere’s history.


    EDIT EDIT:

    There are some more lines in the novel about Queen Idearia and her subordinate "Jyuu"'. While she definitely had one of them, she may have used more than one. The lines in the novel include:

    "And so, I also disliked my sister’s ‘Jyuu’. ‘Jyuus’ live to fight." (King Us’s narration in Alex's nightmare)

    “──It was for the sake of killing his sister’s ‘Jyuu’.” (King Us’s narration in Alex's nightmare)

    “… there was a ‘Jyuu’ (or ‘Jyuus’) among his retainers, and tradition has it that King Us (actually Queen Idearia) gave him important responsibilities…” (Octavia’s thoughts on the use of ‘Jyuus’ by Us who hate the ‘Jyuus’, until realizing that it was actually Idearia who used them).

    If it was true that a ‘Jyuu’ had been assigned with responsibilities in the early days, then there was a good chance that it happened during the Queen’s rule. If we assumed that the ‘Jyuu served her, then it made sense.” (Octavia’s thoughts on the use of ‘Jyuus’ by Us who hate the ‘Jyuus’, until realizing that it was actually Idearia who used them).

    So yeah, Idearia definitely had a "Jyuu".
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2022
  13. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    Also, I just found out a new tidbit. Apparently, Alex's nightmare of the King killing his sister is recurring. He asks himself [Dōshite kon'na yume o miru nda? Mukashikara nando mo nando mo] which roughly translates to [Why do you have such a dream? Over and over again since the past].

    He adds
    If you believe in a dream, that is "King Us". It's the moment of birth. But in actual history, King Us inherits the throne from his father. Besides, Count Alderton was dissatisfied with King Us and urged him to abdicate by force. The uprising was unsuccessful and the Count was alienated from the center by the order of King Us.

    So this supports the earlier chapters when Octavia was surprised to find out from her foster dad, the current king, that there was a queen in Esphere who was eventually killed by her brother. Alex likely also didn't know until his recurring nightmares made him have a different perspective. What he originally believed written down in history that the King that inherited the throne from his father, he had actually killed his sister for the throne.

    He adds
    [Shikashi ima mo hakushaku-ka to shite ari tsudzuke. Ima-daide wa aneue no goei no kishi o dashite iru.] which roughly translates to [However, he still remains as a count family. Nowadays, he has a knight of escort on my older sister.]

    I think this is the real reason why Alex dislikes Clifford. I mean it was pretty obvious when he found out that Clifford is part of the Alderton family, even if he is adopted. And it's not that previous Count of Alderton rebelled but rather because it has something to do with his sister? In Alex's nightmare, the previous Alderton congratulated the former king after he killed his sister and became king (as the king was crying over his sister's dead corpse might I add). The nightmares already freak Alex out (which might also explain why he's kind of protective of Octavia) so I suppose Alderton has an association with his nightmare and so there's an association with his sister possibly being hurt? Alex does threaten Clifford to kill him if he dares to betray Octavia.

    EDIT: If you've noticed, Alex has a personal sparring knight, Guy who's a commoner. So, again, it shows that Alex doesn't look at people's status. He also has a subordinate knight named Randall who's a commoner (which Alex acknowledges is somewhat problematic). So if anyone initially thought that Alex doesn't like Clifford because he's a "bastard" (apart from being an insult, it's a derogatory term for illegitimate kids) which Clifford isn't, or because he's from a commoner background who got adopted in a Count's family, that's not it either. Alex dislikes and distrusts the Alderton family and anyone affiliated with them (as Clifford is adopted into the family)

    EDIT EDIT:
    Just found a line that says "Alexis placed no importance on commoners", while the royal family didn't hold the same dislike. Alexis thinks that it's because, after his nightmare as King Us, he felt the same emotions as him, and Us hated Esphere, which mostly had commoners, for rebelling against his sister, Queen Idearia, and forcing him to kill and become the king. Of course, Alexis did make a few "exceptions" when it came to commoners.






    Now onto the name Alderton. And I don't mean Clifford (ow my heart). In Alex's nightmare, the previous Alderton congratulates the former king after he killed his sister and became king. This implies that Alderton was on the former King's side. BUT it is also common knowledge that the previous Alderton had rebelled against him and failed, which led to him being ostracized by the King (but he "came back to life with his heroic deeds" according to the aristocrat, Rosa). Does this mean that he was part of the King's faction but rebelled because he sensed something weird about him but lost (I wonder if the Sky God interfered with that too :hmm:)

    I wonder about the former Alderton and the Alderton Countdom in general. :hmm:

    Here's the translated interaction in the manga between the previous Alderton and the previous King (named Us or Uther) in Alex's nightmare.
    Previous Alderton: "Congratulations, Your Highness. No. Your Majesty."
    Previous King: "... I... will not be the king."
    Previous Alderton: "Do you intend to fulfill your sister's wishes?" (Ane-kun no negai o muge ni nasaru otsumori ka')
    Previous King: "... stop."
    Previous Alderton: "We are delighted with the birth of the new king. His Majesty King Us (Usu-ō heika)"
    Previous King: "Shut up! Alderton!"

    Now Alderton in general (both the previous one and the current one who's Clifford's foster dad) is a big mystery.

    Clifford talks an itty bit about the previous Alderton but that's more in a general way of the rebellion.

    Here, "Paradise in the Sky" is owned by King Us. [ここ、『天空の楽園」こそ ウス王が所有し] It's the opposite of paper, led by Count Alderdon with King Us. [ウス王と共に アルダードン伯爵が 中心となって起こした 紙逆の場だ] However, the memory of the tragedy has been forgotten.

    I had a previous inkling that maybe Clifford's previous lord is dead. Members of the "Jyuu" clan can only choose one master in their lives, but Clifford says he's special so he can choose two masters, and Octavia is his second master. So I thought (and maybe other readers thought it too, idk) that maybe his first lord is dead or something so it kinda redacts the first lord's relationship with Clifford as his master. But, Clifford has never said or implied or hinted that the first lord is dead. This means chances are the first lord is alive and kicking. I wonder if the current Count of Alderton who's also Clifford's foster dad is his first lord. Clifford says that Octavia is the lord of his choice so his first lord might have coerced or manipulated Clifford to have a first lord:blobcry: . Makes me even more curious about what's going on between those two. Is there some kind of deal? (Please, don't let it be so. Protecc Cliffy).
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2022
  14. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    So I decided to analyze Clifford’s inner thoughts in the manga raws.
    This was when Clifford was changing to white daddy clothes at the ball.

    I am doubtful (?). I change my clothes to the extent that some clothes overflowed. [多少服が 溢れた程度で わざわざ着替える。]. I didn't think I was going to put myself in a world like this. … [こんな世界に 自分が身を 置くとは...]. Time surprisingly changes the appearance of the same thing…. [時とは 同じものの姿を 驚くほど変える…。] This building too. [この建物も。]

    Here, "Paradise in the Sky" is owned by King Us. [ここ、『天空の楽園」こそ ウス王が所有し] It's the opposite of paper, led by Count Alderdon with King Us. [ウス王と共に アルダードン伯爵が 中心となって起こした 紙逆の場だ] However, the memory of the tragedy has been forgotten. [にも関わ 惨劇の記憶は 忘れ去られている。] Even so, one [それにしても一] That "Obey" wears white [『従』が白を 纏うとは] It's as if, it's a clown. [まるで、道化だな]

    ... All I have to do is move. […動けさえ すればいいが] Why did I doing such a thing? [自分はなぜ あんなことを] Because it was an order, right? [命令だから:か?] This is also my own will. [これも己の意志で] ____ I chose(?) [を選んだ。]


    Obey in translation is “Jyuu”. That and Obedience and submissive (idk, bizarre translation).
    Also, I wasn’t able to pick up all the Japanese letters for translation, so this isn’t a 100% accurate. I used both Google Translate and Microsoft Translate.


    In the first paragraph, Clifford is changing his clothes. I believe that he’s surprised that he’s going along with the ball by changing his clothes. Like he’s not doing just his knight duties of watching over Octavia, but he’s doing extra. He “didn't think [he] was going to put [him]self in a world like this” which I assume is the aristocratic world which is kind of represented via the ball. His knight uniform is shown when he says this. When he says “Time surprisingly changes the appearance of the same thing”, the flashback image of him fighting on the battlefield is shown, so it does show that it’s surprising for him, a fighting machine, is here changing clothes for the ball. When he says “This building too”, he refers to Rosa’s place where the ball is.

    In the second paragraph, I'm assuming that the “Paradise in the Sky” (the sky room?) was owned by the former king, and the previous Count of Alderton rebelled against the king and lost. I have no idea what he means by "It's the opposite of paper, led by Count Alderdon with King Us." I assume he means what's written down in history? Anyways, the rebellion was tragic but people (he’s mostly referring to the aristocrats enjoying the ball) forgot about it (despite it being common knowledge? Either I’m lost in translation or he means that they don’t care about it as much as they did in the past because it was awful ig). I'm not sure if this means that Rosa's place belonged to the previous King, since the sky room was where the battle between Clifford and the enemies took place. But the building now belongs to Rosa. I think Rosa is an influential person, since she's called "Earl Rosa Redington", not Countess Rosa. This means that Rosa holds authority over the title and has power (which is ironic since the women in Esphere are used as baby-making machines, so I wonder if Rosa avoided that since Octavia does say she's a woman Octavia respects). It also implies that she's unmarried. Anyways, as Clifford puts on his coat and his dagger in his cuff he says ‘Even so, one … That "Obey" wears white … It's as if, it's a clown.’ So that means one vividly remembers. Not sure who or if its someone he knows or it’s himself. Then I think he finds wearing white kind of humorous (in a mocking, ironic way) since white is a pure color and he’s a warrior, who has been labeled as Ongarne because he killed both people from both sides in a battle. He says clown so I assume he sees it as a farce.

    The third paragraph is him done changing and going to the room Octavia is in (OR leaving the room he was in). He first says that all he needs to do is move. That means all he needs to do is follow orders and fight ig. Tbh, this is actually kind of sad. For Clifford to think that way means he wasn't treated well or even as a human, but a fighting machine. It reiterates why he finds changing his clothes (and in white) weird and clownish. He then remembers stroking Octavia’s head in the carriage when she was having a nightmare and stroking her head when she was crying :blob_patpat: (after recalling her past life’s death as Maki and her interaction with the jerk god who looks like Rust). He finds it weird and asks himself why he did that. He tells himself he did that because it was an order (but she never ordered him to stroke her head tho, just to hide her if she cries :blobthinkingsmirk:). I wasn’t able to translate a sentence so his remaining thoughts says that it was his will so either he acknowledges that he comforted Octavia in her nightmare and when she was crying because he was wanted to or he meant that he chose Octavia out of his will (an action he also finds strange). I’ve said this before but the fact that Clifford finds it weird that he chose a lord out of his will and him telling Octavia that she is the lord he chose (twice if I recall) means that he wasn’t treated well :blob_teary:. He didn’t have any chances to exercise his will and choices, and was likely treated less than human. That’s why choosing Octavia as his lord and doing extra things like stroking her head shows him exercising his will and empathy as humans do when we see someone who needs comfort.

    With that, I would love to leave this line by Octavia when Clifford consoles her when she's crying at the ball.
    Clifford's heartbeat is transmitted through my back. A warm and calm sound of life ... [背中ごしに クリフォードの 鼓動が伝わってくる. あたたかく 落ち着いた一 命の音…。] :blobsob: Get your man, Octavia! Cliffy, you is a human, bby.


    So I want to talk about this manga image too because I was a bit confused about it at first. Clifford has a flashback of Octavia crying at the ball.

    The recollection in the middle of the manga page has
    Can you hide my crying face ... [泣き顔を隠せて いるか…か] It's all gone... [全て 消えている…] I’m sorry [惜しいな。].

    I think these are Octavia’s words resonating in Clifford’s head. Clifford then touches the side of his head, with confusion. I would some up this very act as a reflection of his confusion about caring for someone empathetically. He's literally touching his head as if confused about such a thought is in his head of why he's worrying about another person. Clifford is an apathetic person and Duke Nightfellow even said that he's someone who thinks of what benefits him. His time with Octavia changes his apathy slowly to genuine empathy, albeit for her only.

     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
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  15. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    I also want to talk about Clifford's usage of Japanese pronouns as a reflection of Clifford himself. Japanese pronouns are used depending on the person and circumstance. However, my analysis could be wrong, and I'm not a native, so take it with a grain of salt. I skimmed through two online books on Japanese linguistics, so this was kinda fun.



    When Clifford talks to Guy Perez: "I have something to check with you." `Omae ni kakunin shite okitai koto ga aru' [お前に確認しておきたいことがある]

    Omae is an informal pronoun of you, which can also derogatory (depending on the context, that is). It can be used to address someone of an equal or lower social status. I wouldn’t say that Clifford views Guy in a derogatory way, rather he would be indifferent to him (anyone who isn’t Octavia). So, it’s better to say that he uses omae to someone equal in terms of position since both Clifford and Guy are imperial knights and from commoner backgrounds (though Clifford was adopted into a Count’s family, but he still sees himself AND is still considered as a commoner).

    When Clifford talks to Octavia: “You are the “Lord” I chose.".” ‘Watashi no eranda “shuu” desu.’ [私の選んだ『主」です。]

    However, he also said to her: "If I changed hands, my sword would be fatal." `Mochikaeta baai, jibun no kenda to chimeishō o atae-sōdeshitanode' [持ち替えた場合、自分の剣だと致命傷を与えそうでしたので]

    Clifford tends to shift between watashi and jibun with Octavia, but he mostly uses watashi with her (and generally speaking. I wasn’t able to find which pronouns he uses for himself with Guy, who refers to himself with ore in his inner thoughts). He uses jibun just a few times when he was bandaging Octavia’s bleeding hand. But, in his inner thoughts when talking about himself he uses jibun only.

    Watashi is one of the Japanese pronouns for the self and is gender-neutral. It is also a formal pronoun, more so for men. It’s pretty clear why Clifford would use it with Octavia.

    Jibun is also one of the Japanese pronouns for the self and is mostly used by men (women can use it too tho). Jibun is a formal pronoun, which “presents [the] “diminished self”, which conveys politeness toward the addressee” (Diachrony of Personal Pronouns in Japanese: A Functional and Cross-linguistic Perspective 2019). So, it makes sense why’d Clifford use it with Octavia. He acts humbly, especially towards Octavia. Jibun is a reflexive pronoun. A reflexive pronoun is a pronoun such as 'myself' which refers back to the subject of a sentence or clause. For example, in the sentence 'She made herself a cup of tea', the reflexive pronoun 'herself' refers back to 'she' (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/reflexive-pronoun).

    Jibun is also “relatively old-fashioned and is often associated with men in sports or in militaristic groups such as the jieetai ‘self-defense army’ or the police force” (Japanese Language, Gender, and Ideology: Cultural Models and Real People 2004). So, it makes sense why Clifford would use it in his inner thoughts since he sees himself a warrior and is part of a warrior clan. Jibun also seems to have a self-reflection function. The self-reflection is evident when he uses it in his inner thoughts. Furthermore, a Japanese Twitter account that read "The world seen by the messenger of Ongarne" (オンガルヌの使者』が見る世界) of the series, seemed to say that Clifford viewed himself in the third person so it kind of dehumanized him because he’s not using “I” pronouns which reflects his individual self. I don’t know if there is an association for jibun with this, but it is interesting to note.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2023
  16. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    My theory of Clifford and Octavia being reincarnated (or be parallel to) has another piece of evidence! In chapter 21.5 of the manga, we see the same former queen (who was killed by her brother) and the hooded figure again! The hooded figure is kneeling down and holding the queen’s hand. We know it’s the queen because, come on, the silhouette. The only thing that says on the manga of this panel is “My Lord” (『我が「主」』à “Waga `shuu'"). The fact that “shuu” is used for 主 (in the novel’s translation) highlights the Shuu-Jyuu (master-servant) relationship between the former queen and the hooded figure. This also parallels to Octavia and Clifford’s master-servant (Shuu-Jyuu) relationship.

    [​IMG]
    https://image.rawdevart.com/comic/i...s-charge-solving-things/chapters/21-5/008.jpg

    (The manga translation was a bit weird, actually. It translated “主”, using Google Translate and Microsoft Translate, as “omo” or “nushi” respectively. I thought it would be “shuu” (which the novel corrected), which is what Octavia is specifically to Clifford. “Shuu” are lords/masters to “Jyuu” members, which is what Clifford is. Nonetheless, “主” does mean “lord, chief, master, main thing, principal” ( see https://nihongomaster.com/japanese/dictionary/kanji/1199/主).)

    In the remaining panels of chapter 21.5 of the manga, Sil, as he writhes in pain, just says (in his thoughts) “Did you/I know? No, I didn’t know!” (知ってる? いや 知らない…! à Shitteru? Iya shira nai . . . !)

    I decided to look at the original novel, where this scene takes place. A bit of context, Sil is kidnapped by a red-haired boy (same guy who asked and got rejected by Clifford for a dance with him at the ball), who’s apparently affiliated with the hooded enemies who attack Clifford, Octavia, Rust, and Derek who come to rescue Sil. He’s injected with something as he was blindfolded, hence him writhing pain and the scene in the paragraph above.

    It’s translated as:

    Thoughts do not come together.

    The hand that shook hit something. Stone tomb. The letters are carved.

    ――Idealia Esphere?

    I don't know

    "My lord"

    ……Do you know?

    No, I don't know.

    A bit more context (which I accidentally left out). So, the previous queen, named Idealia or something, like that, her tomb is in the Sky Room (where the battle took place). Her name is carved on her tombstone. I’m interested in the quotation marks used in the novel for this scene. The phrases without quotation marks are Sil’s inner thoughts. But "My lord" put emphasis on something. The manga gives a bit more hints of the former queen Idealia and the hooded figure shown when the "My Lord" was being said. I initially thought that Sil said, "My Lord" in his hypnosis (which the injection was for). But, seeing the panel of the former queen Idealia and the hooded figure with "My Lord", makes me believe that "My Lord" is said by the hooded figure, maybe? You know, to emphasize the master-servant/Shuu-Jyuu relationship.

    I’m getting more excited about this ship!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And, this isn’t really big thing, but I’ve always wondered about it, tbh. I’ve already noticed that Octavia and the royal family don’t have last names. You’ve got Alderton (Clifford Alderton), you’ve got Burkes (Sil Burkes), you’ve got Nightfellow (Derek Nightfellow), you’ve got Redington (Rosa Redington), you’ve got Burn (Rust Burn). As Queen Idelia is Octavia’s blood-related predecessor, then her full name “Idelia Esphere” (on her tomb), implies that Octavia’s last name is Esphere. Looking back the previous translated chapters of the manga, the current king, Octavia’s foster dad’s, full name is “Enoch Esfia” (likely another spelling pronunciation of Esphere). So Octavia is Octavia Esphere or Octavia Esfia.
     
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  17. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    And, this isn’t really big thing, but I’ve always wondered about it, tbh. I’ve already noticed that Octavia and the royal family don’t have last names. You’ve got Alderton (Clifford Alderton), you’ve got Burkes (Sil Burkes), you’ve got Nightfellow (Derek Nightfellow), you’ve got Redington (Rosa Redington), you’ve got Burn (Rust Burn). As Queen Idelia is Octavia’s blood-related predecessor, then her full name “Idelia Esphere” (on her tomb), implies that Octavia’s last name is Esphere. Looking back the previous translated chapters of the manga, the current king, Octavia’s foster dad’s, full name is “Enoch Esfia” (likely another spelling pronunciation of Esphere). So Octavia is Octavia Esphere or Octavia Esfia.
     
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  18. renuac

    renuac Well-Known Member

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    That one actually gets explained in the novel. All other nobles have the same last name as their territories (Octavia even lampshades this by pointing out that this comes directly from being a novel-like world, since every otaku knows that in the real world, you have titles where Lord A is Earl of B from county C), so logically, the royal family should have Esphia as their family name, except that only monarchs (past or present) have the right to bear that name. So in the current royal family, Enoch is the only person with an actual, official last name.

    I think this gets mentioned when Octavia first sees Idealia's tomb and it's how she figures out pretty much instantly who the tomb belongs to. The fact that someone name 'Esphia' is buried there makes it instantly clear that this is a monarch's tomb, and since Idealia is a woman's name, it kind of limits the number of candidates...

    Edit: Guess I might as well upload these since I have them. They're the coloured images that come as extras with the digital version of the manga.

    Octavia looks really hot in that guard uniform, but I wouldn't trust her with a sword...
     

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  19. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    Makes sense.:cookie: I rarely heard Octavia's last name since a lot of the other characters' last names show up along with their first names, so I didn't know what hers was initially.

    But more importantly

    OMG THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE COLORED ILLUSTRATIONS!!!! I don't have the second one un-watermarked. I'm so happy to see Clifford without the watermark! :blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed::blobnosebleed: OMYGAHHELOOKSOGOODTHANKUSOMUCH

    If you have the 4 Koma, please do share~ I can't find that anywhere and I wanna seeClifford know the context :blob_pout:
     
  20. sovokop

    sovokop Shameless Clifford Simp

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    *Note: Red-haired guy, actually named Stain, calls Sil as Burksy.

    Starting from after Sil met a young girl named Lilishana (Lilithana/Lily Shana/Ririshana) who went away, a red-haired guy (same guy who asked Clifford for a dance but got rejected) splashes his drink on Sil and apologizes. But that was done deliberately to get Sil’s attention and red-haired guy says that he’s Duke Nightfellow’s messenger (Derek’s dad and Octavia non-blood uncle). So, they meet the Duke. And the Duke says something red-haired guy, and red-haired guy says he asked Octavia’s escort knight (Clifford) for a dance but got rejected so he didn’t. Red-haired guy is bisexual I think since he says men and women are welcome as long as they’re beautiful. Duke sighs and says Baldo would cry, who I’m assuming is red-haired guy’s dad since he says dad, but I don’t know what he says about him tbh. Something about a garden? Anyways, red-haired guy is a beauty maniac.

    Then Duke tells Sil he moved his son, Derek, away from Sil to check something about Sil. He talks about some rats hidden in Esphere but they’re the enemies and need to be wiped out. He adds “If you don't hit the original nest, it's insignificant to decrease it, but it's a problem that it doesn't come out of the nest.” Sil replies "... But, out of the nest, the rat is about to come in contact with me." Duke laughs a little but then seriously reveals that he believes that Sil is one of those rats. Duke reasons for this is because, as he states, “The royal family is misled by love and tilts the country. For example, what if Mr. Burkes fell in love with His Highness Celius at the direction of the rats? You can disturb the national affairs through His Highness.” Sill gets mad and says “Celius won’t do such a stupid thing. He's not the kind of person who bends the political party with his love for me.” (EXCEPT HE DOES DUMBASS!!! DO YOU NOT REMEMBER CHAPTER 1!?!? HE WANTS TO BE FAITHFUL TO YOU SO HE’S READY TO DROP HIS SISTER IN THE POLITICAL CESSPOOL FOR BEING THE ROYAL BABY MAKER DESPITE HER NOT WANTING TO!!!!!! HIS PEOPLE TREAT HER LIKE CRAP!!!!! NOT TO MENTION, WHEN YOU WENT TO THE BALL SECRETLY, HE GATHERS HIS KNIGHTS BECAUSE HE PANICKED THAT YOU WERENT THERE!!!!) Duke hopes that’s true. Sil feels like this statement doesn’t affect the Duke’s opinion (I stan the Daddy Duke! A man with a brain). Sil asks if he called him just to see if he was a rat, then red-haired guy says the Duke is bulling Sil and spouts something about doubt is beauty and whatnot. Tbh I didn’t care much (I miss Clifford). At the end, the convo went:

    Sil: "... The Duke helped the rat. Is that so?"

    Duke: "Those who don't usually have a tail are obsessed with Burkes. And when the information arrived, you suddenly decided to attend the quasi-ball. There was something in the information that moved you. Probably .-- What is important to me is that you can feed the tail. "

    In other words, he sees Sil is bait.

    Then Duke leave so Sil and red-haired guy are alone. Sil thinks if Celius was here he would have said no immediately even if Derek was there (AGAIN! HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THAT HE WOULD TILT THE COUNTRY FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!????????) Sil realizes that the “someone” who invited him to the ball was also the Duke (Daddy Duke, you better not do that with Clifford and Octavia, unless it’s to check if Clifford is husband material for Octavia). The Duke said he can also enjoy the home and go home if he wants. Sil is wondering whether to cooperate. So, he decides to ask something from the red-haired guy. The red-haired guy, as Duke Nightfellow’s subordinate, was a spy to monitor the rats and succeeded in infiltrating among them. Sil asks the red-haired guy what would happen if he didn’t cooperate and went on to enjoy the ball and then went home. I think he replies that then Octavia will be targeted and caught. Sil becomes super worried, but the red-haired guy assures him that, unlike himself I think, she’s has Clifford to protect her. Then some more conversation which I couldn’t understand until the red-haired guy says that tonight was a good chance to take down the rats. Some more convo, and Sil agrees to cooperate. Some more boring and confusing convo, I think Daddy Duke also invited Lilishana, the little girl from earlier.

    Red haired guy then asks “Does Burkes have something to do with the rats?" Sil replies with a question (but it’s not a question, Sil. It’s an advice) that “Duke of Night Fellow is playing a central role. But, anyway, His Majesty Octavia ... is being targeted even if the danger is low? If so, talk to His Majesty and talk to the Armed Forces.” Red haired guy says it’s impossible. He says protecting Octavia won’t wipe out the rats. Sil asks why. He replies the Majesty (the current king) does not like Esphere. In the manga, he clearly says “Isn't that because His Majesty hates this country?” He adds “When he was the Prince, His Majesty was as beautiful and perfect a superhuman as His Highness Celius. But since he ascended the throne, he's been a good king at first glance, but he's been doing something that weakens Esphere.

    Two things, first, clearly he has not met Clifford well. That’s a beautiful, superhuman right there, and Celius is just an annoying fly with an opportunity to make serious puns. Second, REDHEAD SPILLED SOME TEA!!!!! I’m going to unpack this later.

    This is specifically from the novel.

    Red haired guy: "The predecessor king was famous for being a very lazy king. Still, Esphere was doing well, but in contrast, His Majesty, the Crown Prince at the time. As expected, His Majesty's parents. Just like that. Oh, isn't blood directly connected? Well, he is beautiful and a perfect superhuman. "

    Sil: "What do you want to say?"

    Red haired guy: "In short, it's completely different from when he was a crown prince. His Majesty has been a wonderful king at a first glance, but he's doing something that weakens Esphere."

    Sil: "... Can you give me a concrete example?"

    Red haired guy: "Recently, you see, His Majesty had stopped the war with Sazah religion a year ago in advance. Did he wait until it was a full-scale battle? It's not a problem because Esphere won in the end and, as a result, the country isn't weakened. Keep this, Burksy, who may marry His Highness Cellius, in the corner of your heart. You may have to die tonight. Also, don't resent me even if you die. "

    Sil: "... Can you not decide that I'll die?"

    Red-haired guy: "Do you have a will?"

    Sil: "... Listen to me."

    Red haired guy: "Ah, did Burks get angry?"

    I’m not sure what the Sazah war example means to red head’s point (the same war Clifford participated in and killed its leader which earned him the name Ongarne/Ongarne’s Messenger/Envoy of Hell/Messenger of Hell/Missionary of Hell/Hubby material). Red haired guy says he’s joking and has Sil blindfolded. They go somewhere, I guess. In the manga, Sil introduces him despite being blindfolded, someone tells him to hold his arm down. Someone says what are you doing to Sil. Then Sil is injected with something, and it hurts him a lot that it hurts his head and his body feels heavy. The one who injected him says “It’s confirmation” (in the manga at least, nothing about this in the novel). Sil’s blindfold comes off. The guy who injected him says "It's not poison. You’ll lose consciousness for a while." Sil hates it and tries to stay conscious but fails and thinks that poison would be better because “[he’s] more afraid of losing consciousness than death. It has been so since [he] was a kid. [He] feels that something [he] doesn't know will come out.” The guy who injected who, the manga reveals, is the leader of the enemies that Clifford, Rust and Derek fought in a rescue mission for Sil. He adds, “Nothing will happen. If you are not our concern.” He then adds "Kill .... (in the manga he says “If you’re afraid, kill”) If you have a grudge, resent your parents who have committed the contraindications" (Linguism time. So, contraindications comes up for the translation of 禁忌 (kinki). For those who don't know "In medicine, a contraindication is a condition that serves as a reason not to take a certain medical treatment due to the harm that it would cause the patient." (see). 禁忌 may also mean taboo, forbidden, prohibition, restriction, limitation, proscription, etc. (see). So, from the various translations, it implies that Sil's parents, most likely his birth parents, broke a taboo/did something really bad, which also means that the leader of the enemies knew his parents and, thus, about Sill.).

    He ends with "For whatever reason, the" master "and" subordinate " are--" (in the manga, he ends at “For whatever reason”. In the novel, he uses the kanji “主” for master, which is “omo” in romaji in Google Translate translates, while in Microsoft Translate, it’s “nushi”. Again, I thought it would be “Shuu” to highlight the Shuu-Jyuu relationship. But for, subordinate, “従” was used and only Microsoft Translate was giving me a translated romaji which is Jyuu. So, it does mean that the leader was talking about the Shuu-Jyuu relationship and the Jyuu clan.) Finally, Sil loses consciousness.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2022