Original Authors

Not sure if this has already been posted somewhere but why is it that ONLY translated novels are listed on the site? I understand there are a bunch of original works online and that there are sites like roylroad and whatnot that host them, but this site just lists the chapters and links anyway...

WW is already linked to plenty of times for other novels (they host Blue Phoenix and Overthrowing Fate) and although ruffwriterblog is not posting anything else, his story Savage Divinity is pretty epic.

If possible, can you add support and leeway for those stories to be added to NU?
Can people list their favorites as well and vote Y/N with whether you agree?

 

no there's a reason if we allowed original authors then we should allow all english novels spanish french german etc then it detracts from what makes NU special.

 

NU only covers Asian novels. So if the Original Work is made in an asian country then translated to english (a few do exist), then they are linked to NU.

 

Novel Updates - Directory of Asian Translated Novels

 

Because the description for NU is 'Directory of Asian Translated Novels'.

If you have firefox, just hover your mouse on NU's tab, you will see "Novelupdates - Directory of Asian Translated Novels". So it's not just novels or translated novels, but Asian translated novels. I don't know about other browsers.

However, I heard someone mention a couple of times that @Tony was taking steps to include original English novels. Was that you, @Parth37955 ? I recall it was someone in the mod team, but I don't remember who.

 

Leave NU only for asian novels... If not... It'ill be a mess.

 

True that.

 

Original Post here: http://forum.novelupdates.com/posts/655408/

I recommend also reading the first post of the linked thread for clarity on the context.

See this: http://forum.novelupdates.com/search/8426447/ for all posts by @Tony on the matter.

 

I mean, we do have a section for community works... If a writer online really wanted to, for whatever reason, they could just do it there... I mean, it's there for a reason >.>

I am 100% sure what I just said made no sense.

 

No

 

100% NO

 

Thanks @brasca123 and @Ai chan

The link that really helped to clear things up.
That whole thread pretty much sums up my reasons for it as well as some moderately valid (I'm biased, sue me) reasoning for why not to do it (and no, the name of the site and the fact that the you could add translations from other languages are NOT good reasons ppl lol)
I guess I would just argue that the reasons they had are moot considering how bomb this site is made.
You have subscription options (so who cares if the feed is busy), you have recommendations, you have ratings, etc. If this site sucked I could understand but... it is pretty amazing so I don't .
I really do hope they follow what @Tony said and modify the site to allow the partition of the originals. In theory, barring the overhead of the increased server space to even host a new section, an easy way to weed out garbage original's is to have say 50 people vouch for before allowing it to be on the site (and make that process annoying so you have to really like the original work to take the time out to do it... add a captcha for the vouchers or something-- and not the simple captcha. that stupid "all the signs" or "all the cats" and make them have to get it right 4 times lol)

Thanks again for the feedback

 

Well, Tony is the only administrator of the site, so the decision is pretty much entirely on his hand.

He didn't say anything about changing his plans about it, but only he knows what he is working on... So, as far as we know, it will come sooner or later... The when though? Well... *shrugs*

 

yeah it'll probably not happen any time soon. the community isn't clamoring for it so introducing it without it being perfect will just get him attacked by people.

 

And when will you start to weed out garbage translated stories?
If some day 'Novelupdates - Directory of Asian Translated Novels' changes to 'Novelupdates - Directory of Asian Translated and Original English Novels' why do you want to restrict the original novels linked? Will we start to remove translated novels that aren't on at least 50 reading lists ... or readers spent an annoying time to write a positive review about it?

 

@xxpointblanqxx
If you need then you can go to beep
It is directory for both translated as well as orignal novels including rrl novels.

 

that's valid but I would argue that the fact that the novels are on these publishers sites AND are being translated means they're essentially being vouched for (even if they're not YOUR cup of tea, enough people like those novels to not only have it on 17k, etc. but also have a person translate and upload chapters). Cuz if you think about it, the translated novels are ALL just original novels in their origin countries... they've just been vouched for

just checked it out. that site is TRASH compared to this one lol

 

Neoshadow's Rant on Orginal Authors​

Maybe?
*totally not late to the party b/c lurking* *grabs the rant mic from Parth*

At first, I was a 'no' like many of you because there are already sites for Japanese/Chinese original novels such as wlnupdates.com, Royal Road, Storiesonline, Finestoriesonline, or even Fanfiction.net. However as @Anon2.0 mentioned, we kind of already have a section on the NU forums for novels and links to your original novels. However, Tony has said several times he is going to add Original Novels at some point (original: http://forum.novelupdates.com/posts/655408/ , follow up: http://forum.novelupdates.com/posts/824003/ )

So again maybe? The real question is what do we (as a community) want our future to be. Do we grow internally or externally?
*uses space-time magic to summon @Tony * (Asked you a few questions below where I used your name. Feel free to rope in Parth and anyone else you want into this conversation. Also long time no see Tony )

1) Growing Externally: If we want to spread our love of foreign novels outside of NU and translation communities in general, then I say no. We need to promote those sites like we are currently doing; however, on a bigger scale. Does anyone have ideas about doing that? I have only a few. The idea of approved aggregator on NU would go a long way to do this, but maybe we could do it on NUF instead in this case by expanding the original sub-forum. It's too bad we cannot get Admins to fix Ro For everyone who said no to the poll, what are your thoughts then about external growth?

2) Growing Internally: The way I see it if we want to grow and strengthen the NU community and translation communities internally; then I say yes. We would need to link to sites that host novels and original authors web-pages/blogs. The idea of Original novels is not odd to me because Asian novels have unique genres like shoujo/shounen/wuxia that like comedy and tragedy Greek genre's can be shared world wide. The reason it would strengthen the bonds of community is that many writers and translators have already written original novels to improve translation and for fun. Giving them a home in NU city, naturally leads to more contact with the community especially critics and fans, which leads to more community involvement
However, there still would be several changes that would need to be made to NU, so I would like to rant about what Parth and others mentioned in the 2016 thread

a) Eventually use a different rating system for translated novels vs. original novels: Lets not repeat past mistakes. A major reason behind the origin of novelsupdates was because mangaupdates had many problems when it came to listing novels. One of those problems has been mangaupdates Bayesian rating system when applied to novels. (@Tony btw what rating system estimator does novelupdates use? Is it weighted?). To get technical, the mangaupdates uses the Bayesian average with a normal distibution for its prior probability called m; moreover, the major weakness of Bayesian average is need to be careful the choice of prior by using subjective and objective facts to find that distribution of ratings and average rating. In layman normal people terms, mangaupdates admins messed up because they assumed (incorrectly) novel ratings are like manga ratings, which cannot be true as time would tell based on history of novels being artifically low scores compared to the same story in anime or manga form. In other words, we would be making the same mistake as novel updates if we treated asian novels ratings the same as orignal english novels ratings. (Speaking of which tony let me know if your ever interested in applying bayesians stats to novels. There are several ways we could find the proper value for the prior as this link and this link talk about.)
b) Different Viewing mode: We would need to decide if it would be original novels or fanfiction and probably create a seperate space. People have issues with jap/chin/kor originals because of fanfiction.net, so prehaps a different viewing mode (by Fossil) would be the best idea until such original novels had a chance to grow. We could also utilize NU search and tag methods to improve people finding stories (by Arcanes). According to Tony, this is all still very possible.
c) Have grammar and spelling requirements: We would need to set some very basic guidlines to new authors about grammar enforced by a screening team (*) (by kyuukestu) or drop if score gets low enough (by Arcares). The only thing they screen is grammar not quality, and people could bypass it with an editor/proofreader. We would need editor/proofreader board forum to help with spelling/grammar similar to the one we have now. Maybe we can merge such a board forum and team with the current editor/proofreader post board we have now? We need this in order to avoid the problems of fanfiction.net. Controversially, we don't want to go overboard like storiesonline.net problems, which sense of elitism/refined tastes can hamper early growth. Overall, most of the good sites I have seen with novels took a harder line on grammar early on, so maybe it would be better about having a hard line about proofreading then easing up? What do you think?
c) Waiting Period: Long term, we need to limit the number of links and revisions OEL authors can make (1 day or 8 hours) compared to translators. This is to subconciously emphasize need to proofread (mess ups affect views) and actually to promote interest in OEL. Interest is caused because having to wait for something to update or post makes you want it more.
d) A place for Reviewers: We might need a reviewer or board forum (or rename a forum for it). This would be a place were people can discuss how to review, rating/scoring system, and more importantly volunteer offer to review (for translators too and not just original authors)
e) Contests and Rewards: We need to incentivise reviewers to improve and not just post troll post or rant post against bad reviews. For example, we would promote top reviewers on NU or even a place were reviewers can post a list of their reviews (based on likes). Or maybe contests. What you think?
f) A Patron Guide: Write a guide on how to use Patron for original author, translator groups, and proof readers. This is to help prevent the issue that RRL has with dropped authors. What do you think?
g) Last Thoughts: Find more ways, incentivise a screening team not to troll. While using proof/editor thread easily solves the 100 people thing that Nom de Plume brought up, keeping them is another thing. The give the ability for authors to resubmit after corrections are made and an appeal system for declines. This goes in line​

Therefore before we can add Original novels, I think it would be wise to create at least some of infrastructure (new forum subgroups or forum threads) listed above.

*gives the Rant mic back to Parth*


P.S. (*) Actually Tony, I think some sites use machine learning to figure out precisely this or have a delay in posting for precisely this. Let me know if you would like me to look into what I can find on the automation side. I could pull in Lazeez of Finestories to comment if it would help.